twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 06:50:07
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You can purchase and download directly from fxpansion no need to use a third party vendor. Not at $25 I at can't. It's £50 over here which is $77. If they do ship it over here it might well not be much less when you include shipping and tax costs. I've contacted audio midi and am waiting for their response. Steve
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scook
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 07:01:21
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my mistake I thought the OP was wanting to DL the BSD Eco deal which is available directly from fxpansion
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 07:10:28
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scook my mistake I thought the OP was wanting to DL the BSD Eco deal which is available directly from fxpansion No you're quite right. The OP was asking that but I had drifted off topic. I was asking cclary about the z-pack deal he had mentioned. Seve
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 13:05:12
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Thanks for the reminder on that Z-Pack, cclarry. I'd forgotten about it. Sadly they won't ship to me but I might be able to get a friend in the US to receive it and send it north. It pays to have some Yanks on yer side. ;-)
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konradh
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 14:07:37
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Here is my personal thing about virtual drums. It is cool to have an option for overhead mics, but if that is the only way to get the cymbals, I do not like it. The reason we don't completely separate cymbals (and all drum sounds) with a live player is because we can't very easily. For me, bleed is never desired. Do either or both of these have separate cymbals apart from overheads? The stuff I read on the toontracks site seemed to imply that cymbals were only via OH, but possibly it was just not stated clearly.
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 14:10:09
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Cymbals are in the OH indeed. Quite easy to solo the cymbals (either as dedicated tracks or as midi events if you have all your midi drums in a single track) before you render, though. Personally, I like the bleed, but to each his own.
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konradh
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 14:21:29
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Thanks, Rain. Having both options is idea. I may pick up EZ or Superior. I like Session Drummer 3, but it is not the ultimate and you can never have too many drum options.
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 14:22:32
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BFD Eco has three cymbal channels that are dry. You can feed as much of each cymbal as you like in to either the room or overhead channels. I mostly prefer little or no bleed but it depends on what I'm trying to achieve. As Rail suggested, if you want to pan your cymbals in EZdrummer and process them individually you would need a separate instance. This is not good IMO. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/08/10 14:34:55
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 14:27:34
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konradh Thanks, Rain. Having both options is idea. I may pick up EZ or Superior. I like Session Drummer 3, but it is not the ultimate and you can never have too many drum options. Konradh Are you not even tempted by a deal that is a fraction of the cost of EZdrummer & Superior and includes a free kit from platinum samples? You can get both for $49 right now whilst EZdrummer will set you back $145. Here's that link again BFD Eco deal Or do you have them already. I would strongly recommend you give the demo version of BFD2 a try if you want flexibility and you like tweaking. As far as I know it's the only one you can actually download a demo of so that's another good reason to give it a try since you can't try any of the others. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/08/10 15:34:47
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konradh
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 21:42:59
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Thanks, twaddle. Checking it out now. Update: Nice demo. The cymbals are particularly impressive, especially the ride.
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 21:53:09
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konradh... if you have the fifty bucks do it, bro. It is really unbelievable and that PS Rock Legends kit is extremely versatile.
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cclarry
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 21:59:14
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Beepster konradh... if you have the fifty bucks do it, bro. It is really unbelievable and that PS Rock Legends kit is extremely versatile. I second that... What I find impressive about BFD (I have Eco) is the velocity layers...I mean it's pretty amazing...it's just like soft to hard hitting of the cymbals and drums...it's a pretty impressive thing...but it also explains why the files are massive... At $49 for BFD Eco and the VERY impressive Rock Legends kit....THAT....to me...is a No-Brainer...and it also gets you to upgrade price on BFD if you should so desire to go there...
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:13:28
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@cclarry... As I stated in my long winded BFD thread I have NEVER been able to get my padKontrol to respond properly to velocities with any other program. I thought the device was defective or just crap. I thought I was going to have to set it to Fixed Velocity and tweak it in the PRV after the fact. With BFD I could get super smooth sensitivity for the first time. I was gonna pay the $300 for BFD2 when I had the dough because I needed something decent to cover my "live" drum needs. Then I learned about Eco at $100 and I rejoiced... THEN I found out about the $50 deal and freaked. THEN I actually started using the program and needed a change of draws. THEN I got the Rock Legends kit installed and running... well... I think I need a bigger mop. ;-p
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:27:26
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cclarry Beepster konradh... if you have the fifty bucks do it, bro. It is really unbelievable and that PS Rock Legends kit is extremely versatile. I second that... What I find impressive about BFD (I have Eco) is the velocity layers...I mean it's pretty amazing...it's just like soft to hard hitting of the cymbals and drums...it's a pretty impressive thing...but it also explains why the files are massive... At $49 for BFD Eco and the VERY impressive Rock Legends kit....THAT....to me...is a No-Brainer...and it also gets you to upgrade price on BFD if you should so desire to go there... x10 After we discussed it here last night, I went on and decided to spend a bit more time w/ BFD Eco and Rock Legends. I already knew the kit was great - it's the reason that motivated me to give BFD a try. After I routed each output to its own track, I imported a midi drum track I've been tweaking for ages, hit play and started adding EQ and compression. Man... I mentioned earlier that what I dug w/ SD is that it was somehow midway between dry and processed - meaning that when you select a kit that fits w/ the song, you still can tweak but you don't have too much to do. Not having experience mixing real, natural drums, that seemed like the best option to me. It only took a few minutes and I had sculpted those Rock Legend samples in a way that I could never imagined - easily the best drums sound I've ever heard coming out of my DAW, using nothing but the stock compressor and EQ in my DAW. And, much to my surprise, it was actually easier than w/ other kits I usually work w/. Not bad for my ego. ;) That $50 I spend on BFD+Rock Legends is easily one of the best investments I could make. I've just purchased Evil Drums Eco, and seriously, between those 2, considering how flexible they are, I think I'll have an awesome drums library which will probably suit my needs for most of what I do as far as acoustic drums are concerned.
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ltb
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:30:31
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Also to point out that the upgrade deal is pretty good. I got the BDF2 upgrade for $85.00 delivered in the U.S. when purchasing the ECO +Legends promo first. That's $135.00 total for all 3.
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:38:30
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May be worth mentioning... I think BFD's GUI would benefit from a bit of refinement, graphics-wise. It's strictly aesthetic, but, it had an impact on my perception of it. I also think that the demos on FX Pansion's web site do not do the product justice. Honestly, it wasn't until I heard Rock Legends that I revised my judgement. I'd say the same thing about Platinum Samples web site design. I don't mean to sound like a prick because honestly those guys make the best samples I have heard, but there's something about it that reminds me those old geocities web pages. I'd hate to think I may be insulting anyone at PS so I apologize if I am - your libraries are just so incredible! I totally understand that PS probably focuses on what really matters, but these are just my 2 cents - between BFD's GUI, the demos on FXPansion's web site and the design of Platinum Samples' site, I discarded BFD for a long time - for all the wrong reasons. But I find it sad to think that other pricks like me could miss out on those terrific products because of that. So to anyone like there who neglected to check these guys out on similar basis - dude, do yourself a favor, forget about graphics and go listen to those samples!
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:43:18
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@Rain... Check out some of the main Presets too. I tossed on "Big and Roomy" or whatever it is called and it was pretty much right where I wanted it. Also just going through the Mixer presets with the RL kit produced some crazy sounding and extremely useful sounds too. It's amazing software and I cannot believe how inexpensive it is. Seriously. I am not a gusher but I am friggen' gushing. Best $50 I've ever spent.
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 22:47:37
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@Rain... in regards to the actual sounds of BFD the Rock Legends kit is actually far better than the included kits IMO and isn't from FXpansion. Imma gonna be going to the Platinum Samples guys for more content when funds are available. I'd REALLY like the Andy John's Classic Kits pack but it's currently $200. It is however 65 gigs worth of awesome. Cheers.
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:00:12
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Beepster @Rain... in regards to the actual sounds of BFD the Rock Legends kit is actually far better than the included kits IMO and isn't from FXpansion. Imma gonna be going to the Platinum Samples guys for more content when funds are available. I'd REALLY like the Andy John's Classic Kits pack but it's currently $200. It is however 65 gigs worth of awesome. Cheers. Yeah, I've already spotted a few sweet kits on PS' site. As you say, from just browsing through quickly before a session, I wasn't too impressed w/ the included kits. That's one of the reason I thought it'd be a lot of work to get those kits to sound great for my purpose and that I might not have the skills to do that just now. I couldn't deal w/ the set back. I may be weird, but I'd actually like it if I could buy just the software upgrade w/o all the extra sample from FX Pansion. I don't want 400 GB of drums samples - I actually like to have just a couple of smaller libraries. I guess I could always buy the upgrade and simply not install them... Sidenote - I noticed that the Platinum Samples installers don't seem to like my external HD. I can't install on it because the installer claims that there is no space left - despite over 1 TB of free space. No biggie, as I can just install on the internal drive and transfer afterwards, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
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chuckebaby
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:04:51
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i preffer ez drummer myself.the sounds are just a tab bit more realistic in my opinion. and you cant tell me the gui isnt the coolest thing since sliced bread.
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konradh
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:08:19
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Money is of no concern to The Mighty Konrad.
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:08:54
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@Rain... You bring up a very valid point that I actually factored into my decision making as well. I did not like many of the demo sounds for BFD2. They are good and all but not to my taste. It seemed like a waste to blow a wad of cash on such a large library that would for the most part go unused. BFD Eco although it is missing some functionality that the full version has is exactly what I wanted without all the extra gack and for a lot less cash. Now I can install what I want/need as I go along. As far as the problem with your external drive just get a hold of the PS guys. They are ultra helpful and actually I'd bet one of them (Rail) will stop in this thread and help if he sees it. Cheers.
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:22:50
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chuckebaby i preffer ez drummer myself.the sounds are just a tab bit more realistic in my opinion. and you cant tell me the gui isnt the coolest thing since sliced bread. Let me put it this way - they're realistic BUT they sound closer to pre-mixed drums than to what you'd get if you set up a drum kit in the room and record that. Not as extreme as Steven Slate's which wins for the most heavily processed. BFD coupled w/ Platinum Samples libraries gives you realistic drums sounds, well recorded - they don't sound sterile or digital by any mean - but not as pre-mixed. It's more like a brilliant recording engineer routed every track to the board using awesome sounding gear but left you in charge of sculpting them and mixing them.
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Beepster
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/10 23:30:11
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That is indeed the big difference between BFD and other similar programs. They are supposed to be raw samples for tweaking as opposed to something you can just drop right into a mix. However all the presets allow you to do that as well. It just depends on what you are looking for from your drum software. For me I want full realism even if I gotta dig my teeth into it a little more. I'd prefer to actually have my own kit again with the right mics going through the right board and the ability to play the buggers again but none of that is gonna happen so this is as close as I can get. ;-)
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 03:21:35
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hallelujah!! It's so good to hear you guys praising BFD Eco (and perhaps even BFD2 one day) for all the reasons my self, bristoljonesy & others have been shouting from the rooftops for the past year or so. Brings a big smile to my face. See?   Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/08/11 04:35:16
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 05:19:13
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Rain May be worth mentioning... I think BFD's GUI would benefit from a bit of refinement, graphics-wise. It's strictly aesthetic, but, it had an impact on my perception of it. I also think that the demos on FX Pansion's web site do not do the product justice. Honestly, it wasn't until I heard Rock Legends that I revised my judgement. I'd say the same thing about Platinum Samples web site design. I don't mean to sound like a prick because honestly those guys make the best samples I have heard, but there's something about it that reminds me those old geocities web pages. I'd hate to think I may be insulting anyone at PS so I apologize if I am - your libraries are just so incredible! I totally understand that PS probably focuses on what really matters, but these are just my 2 cents - between BFD's GUI, the demos on FXPansion's web site and the design of Platinum Samples' site, I discarded BFD for a long time - for all the wrong reasons. But I find it sad to think that other pricks like me could miss out on those terrific products because of that. So to anyone like there who neglected to check these guys out on similar basis - dude, do yourself a favor, forget about graphics and go listen to those samples! That's interesting your saying that about not liking BFD2 for all the wrong reasons. I wasn't impressed with superior drummer for "some" of those reasons. I'm really not a fan of metal/heavy rock (that doesn't mean I don't love Black Sabbath, The Pistols & The Clash) but what I heard of the demo's seemed to lean very much that way. I particularly don't like the drums in a lot of modern metal, those horribly tinny kicks that I hear. I thought the demo's on the fxpansion site for Eco & BFD2 covered a much wider range, particularly as you had 10 different kits with BFD2 Not that the demo's were the style I wanted as such, just that they seemed more eclectic. One thing I will say about fxpansions web site that no other site has and I think is really useful is that you can demo each kit piece on it's own. To my mind that seemed very professional and gives an indication as to what their philosophy is with regards to giving you the raw sounds so that you can be the engineer. Ultimately though I much prefer the sound of BFD Eco & BFD2. The "B" in BFD does stand for BIG and that's as accurate a description as you can get. There are 3 installs for BFD2, small, medium and large but what that actually does (I think) is install kits with less velocity layers so most people would want the full kit. What might have been a better idea would be to allow you to choose which kits you wanted to install. But of of course you would still have to buy all 10 kits of which you might only use 4 or 5. Still whether I was going to use them or not I still thought it much better value than superior and most places in the UK it seemed slightly cheaper too. Partly, the reason platinum samples stuff sounds better is probably on account of the fact that they have many more velocity layers (up to 256) I thought this to be a bit over the top at first but perhaps not. I figured most loud heavy rock and punk wouldn't really need more than 10 to 15 layers and the subtlety and dynamics would be wasted but the Gen-16 Z-packs sound much better. But would I really notice in a well mixed heavy rock track? Who's to say. But I still want them Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/08/11 06:06:18
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 05:37:47
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Sorry, double post.
post edited by twaddle - 2012/08/11 05:56:23
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twaddle
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 06:17:32
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twaddle Sorry, double post. But whilst I'm here Apologies to the OP for meandering off topic slightly but one thing I will say.......... Right now if you want to demo any of the main contenders there is only one choice. That's not an opinion but a fact. BFD2 is the only one that you can try before you buy. Admittedly it comes with just one 16bit (not 24bit) kit and with fewer velocity layers but apart from that it is fully featured and gives you a great idea of what it's all about. Not sure about all the midi loops but that's not really the point. It is obviously more complex but well worth checking out. Steve
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 10:25:31
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twaddle That's interesting your saying that about not liking BFD2 for all the wrong reasons. I wasn't impressed with superior drummer for "some" of those reasons. I'm really not a fan of metal/heavy rock (that doesn't mean I don't love Black Sabbath, The Pistols & The Clash) but what I heard of the demo's seemed to lean very much that way. I particularly don't like the drums in a lot of modern metal, those horribly tinny kicks that I hear. I thought the demo's on the fxpansion site for Eco & BFD2 covered a much wider range, particularly as you had 10 different kits with BFD2 Not that the demo's were the style I wanted as such, just that they seemed more eclectic. One thing I will say about fxpansions web site that no other site has and I think is really useful is that you can demo each kit piece on it's own. To my mind that seemed very professional and gives an indication as to what their philosophy is with regards to giving you the raw sounds so that you can be the engineer. Ultimately though I much prefer the sound of BFD Eco & BFD2. The "B" in BFD does stand for BIG and that's as accurate a description as you can get. There are 3 installs for BFD2, small, medium and large but what that actually does (I think) is install kits with less velocity layers so most people would want the full kit. What might have been a better idea would be to allow you to choose which kits you wanted to install. But of of course you would still have to buy all 10 kits of which you might only use 4 or 5. Still whether I was going to use them or not I still thought it much better value than superior and most places in the UK it seemed slightly cheaper too. Partly, the reason platinum samples stuff sounds better is probably on account of the fact that they have many more velocity layers (up to 256) I thought this to be a bit over the top at first but perhaps not. I figured most loud heavy rock and punk wouldn't really need more than 10 to 15 layers and the subtlety and dynamics would be wasted but the Gen-16 Z-packs sound much better. But would I really notice in a well mixed heavy rock track? Who's to say. But I still want them Steve I got my first real glimpse of EZ when I received a LE copy after buying Studio One during a sale. Actually, it was over 6 months before I even installed it. But when I did it just won me over almost instantly. And since there's sales all the time, it didn't cost me much to upgrade to EZ full, then SD. I always thought the audio demos on Toontrack's web site didn't really do the kits justice either. Sometimes, they give you a fair idea - at other times, they leave you guessing. Recently I was considering their Custom and Vintage expansion - because technically, that should be the closest thing to what I want. But once again, the demo weren't exactly it. And it's happened to me a few times to buy expansions based on the specs hoping that I could tweak them to my liking only to find that they were too pre-produced for me to be able to "salvage" anything. I'm not fan of the metal type of kicks either - though I do have to work w/ those as well and Toontrack does the job fairly well in that case. But I'm a huge Bonham fan and I like big fat kick drums for my own stuff. The one EZX that I found myself constantly using was the Nashville one, because it could sound big. Just a bit of layering here and there and I could get close to what I want. Also, and I insist on that one - part of the reason why I stayed away from BFD was that I wasn't confident I'd have the skills to mix more natural sounding drums. But as it turns out, it's even easier for me.
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Rain
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Re:EZ vs Eco...?
2012/08/11 13:05:23
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Update - A big thank you to Rail @ Platinum Samples who went the extra mile to quickly provide an updated installer that fixed my little issue. :) Amazing samples, top notch service.
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