konradh
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Earbud EQ
Do you find you need routinely to cut a particular frequency from the lead vocal (or whole mix) to keep the song from being too hard in earbuds? I find myself backing off 2.5-3K in the lead vocals. Obviously, you don't want to go too far with that, but the vast majority of listeners are going to be using some kind of earbuds.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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bapu
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 17:50:35
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I'm not sure I specifically cut that freq but I do test my mixes in four different sets of headphones/earbuds.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 18:29:57
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I have found it is the bottom end that needs the attention. Very low notes don't fair well on earbuds so I find that if I know the product is going to end up there I do some careful bass tweaking in the mastering stage to make it work. There is usually a point that the low end can satisfy both the earbuds and the speakers at the same time. Better quality ear buds should not be changing the midrange so much.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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John
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 18:30:34
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First thing I would do is be sure that you aren't destroying the careful mix you made for ear buds. Find a master album that you admire for both its content and the high quality of its sound that has a full range and see how it sounds on the buds. Do not do anything to the sound you get. This will be your reference in testing out audio gear. If you hear problems it should be in the gear not in the album. The over all idea is after listening you should know where you stand with the buds. If the album sounds good on the buds you know its the mixes you are doing that have the problem. If on the other hand the great album sounds bad then you know if you adjust the mix it will hurt it. Personally, I think you should ignore ear buds.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 19:11:13
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John is mainly correct, I would not sacrifice a mix just to make it work on earbuds. But having said that I want to refer to something that happened to me a few years back. I was lucky enough to score a job where I mixed and mastered an Indonesian Pop Music CD. (Killer playing and it was all live, serious band folks and I mean serious, and the singer was amazing too) I was in Australia and I did it all by remote control working with the record label in Indonesia. It all went well and they loved the mixes except at the end they said it was not sounding quite right on earbuds. And I thought why would you care about them and then they informed me that 99% of the target audience will be teenage girls using earbuds. Well then I thought OK I need to fix it. It was simple bass end issue and with some correction I was able to keep it sounding terrific on the speakers (large and small) but I got it sounding great on the buds too. So I guess the moral of the story is what is your target audience likely to be and will earbuds be the prominent listening medium. If so then I think you do have to factor them in a bit more. They are a part of life these days. Unfortunately so is the laptop speakers/phone scenario. But I don't get too concerned about them though.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 20:46:15
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No, if it was mixed and mastered correctly, it will play good on your ear buds and all other sound systems Cj
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John
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 20:47:32
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The downfall of music are ear buds!
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gswitz
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 20:48:21
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Jeff, I want your magic sauce. I can't get the bass to sound good on ear buds. On all my stereos the music is AWESOME! but on cheap junk earbuds it just disappears. Nothing I can do about it. Only thing I've considered is using an octave tool to duplicate the sound up an octave... but I've never gone that far. I've definitely pushed the bass to the top of my comfort level on all my mixes to try to compensate.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/08/28 21:08:12
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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lawajava
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 21:00:20
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I EQ and mix as I go predominantly on earbuds. I have several good headphones and monitor speakers as well.
I use the reference track(s) approach as well as mentioned above. That is very helpful to keep me from fooling my ears into thinking the mix is working, when it's not by comparison to the reference track.
I also use the Focusrite VRM box which helps reference what is and what is not working in the mix.
That all said, I use earbuds along the way as my working headphones. If the mix sounds good on earbuds I'm finding it sounds great on speakers, in the car, or on other better headphones. However the reverse is not always true. If it sounds good on good speakers or headphones it may not sound good at all on earbuds.
I use the earbuds with the reference tracks and with the VRM box quite often. I can get a lot done even at low volumes until I need to crank it louder. My one other upside (I hope) is that I may preserve my ears for future use by not enclosing them or blasting them for long periods. I'm hoping to hear and enjoy my music when I'm old - without a hearing aid.
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noynekker
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 21:01:29
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CJaysMusic No, if it was mixed and mastered correctly, it will play good on your ear buds and all other sound systems Cj
I've always believed this to be true, so it's what I always aim for in a recording.
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sharke
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 23:00:19
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I remember listening to a mix on my crappy Bose laptop speakers and getting depressed at how boomy the bass sounded and how far back the mids seemed. Then I listened to a Donald Fagan track on the same speakers and I heard the same problem. So I stopped worrying about it.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/28 23:00:19
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I remember listening to a mix on my crappy Bose laptop speakers and getting depressed at how boomy the bass sounded and how far back the mids seemed. Then I listened to a Donald Fagan track on the same speakers and I heard the same problem. So I stopped worrying about it.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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wizard71
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 06:40:47
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I think it's critical to use good reference mixes as John points out. If you make a mix sound great on a bad pair of headphones alone then the chances are its gonna sound bad everywhere else. At least by listening to a great mix through the monitoring tool(s) of your choice you will get a great perspective in the way they colour the sound.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 07:10:04
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Remember that earbuds are not all the same. There are cheap ones (quality of construction) and there are nice ones. I have compared a few side by side in my MP3 player and there is a big difference in their overall frequency responses.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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konradh
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 09:46:40
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Thanks for all the good thoughts. I have more than one set of near-field monitors and my mixes sound the same in both. They sound good (but not 100% the same, of course) in the headphones singers use for tracking and in the AudioTechnicas I use for listening. I also check mixes in several other environments (boom boxes, cars, computers, etc.). Apple in-ear (iPhone 5), Philips, and several other earbuds seem to have a bump in the upper midrange. For my current project, I am going to mix as best I can and then call in an outside engineer for the final mix (since I have heard the material thousands of times). I am currently seeking a mastering house to finish this project (plus a rock album that is already mixed). Feel free to disagree, but my opinion: like them or hate them, earbuds will be the delivery system for over 80% of your audiences.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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bitflipper
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:10:56
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If you're optimizing specifically for stock Apple earbuds, here's what you're up against.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bitflipper
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:14:33
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Funny and sad but true: Apple's own spec sheet claims 20-20KHz frequency response!
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:40:58
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Now I'm depressed I didn't know they were that bad. I don't think I have ever used an iPod. Now I know why.
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sharke
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:46:49
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I hate ear buds. Even when they're so-called "quality" models, the only time they stay in my ears is when I sit perfectly still. Any head movement whatsoever and they're slowly popping out. I've tried loads of them, even those recommended by people who say they're designed to fit perfectly. I always try all of the covers that come with them, none of them are the right shape or size. When I wear them on the treadmill at the gym, the sound quality is great for about 10 seconds, then one of them shifts slightly and all of a sudden I've got less bass in one ear. I spend the whole workout trying to ram them back in. Years ago I read somewhere that because many ear buds are designed and manufactured in Asia, they tend to be more suited for Asian ears. I have no idea if that's BS or not, but for what it's worth my girlfriend is Chinese and she runs with the stock iPhone buds and says they fit perfectly. I can't even get the iPhone buds to stay in my ears when I'm sitting still.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:47:52
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John Now I'm depressed I didn't know they were that bad. I don't think I have ever used an iPod. Now I know why.
You do know you can wear any headphones you like with an iPod right
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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John
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:55:15
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My headphones are bigger then any iPod. It would make for a strange combination. Keep in mind that Apple is the evil one. Thus I wouldn't have any reason to use headphones with the disgusting device.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 12:58:37
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Yep, you can even use your studio phones.....you might have to take your protective case off, though.
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musicjohnnie
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 13:14:41
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I have found that there are different mixes for regular cds and itunes. Mostly because of the platform being mixed for. Hence the difference in sound for iPod and such
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cclarry
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 13:56:16
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bitflipper Funny and sad but true: Apple's own spec sheet claims 20-20KHz frequency response!
Yes..but you must take NOTE of the fact that the don't give you +/- ratings....it would be like +7/-30 They do respond to those frequencies...they just don't do it FLAT or well...so, they are "TECHNICALLY" correct...
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konradh
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 14:42:42
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Thanks, bitflipper. That graph confirms my unscientific and subjective evaluation. I don't want to optimize for earbuds. I see it more like how people checked mixes in mono and on Auratones to make sure they translated to AM car radios. I think a tweak to compensate for earbuds is reasonable if you are not screwing up the mix for other devices.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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bitflipper
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 16:28:25
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The reason I posted that graph was to illustrate that it isn't really even possible to compensate for those earbuds' spectral deficiencies. You'd have to add 20-30dB to the low end, which would a) distort the buds something awful, and b) make it nearly-impossible to play on a broad-spectrum system. (Taking a little off the top probably wouldn't hurt, though; the better headphones of the world tend to be almost a mirror-image of that picture on the high end.) There's a reason why people's eyes go wide and jaws drop the first time they put on a pair of high-end headphones. It's not because expensive cans sound great, but rather that they're simply hearing, for the first time, what the producers intended all along. I think of it as an easter egg. A hidden surprise for anyone willing to go looking for it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/29 17:01:27
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There is something you could do. Forgetting the bottom end there is no reason why you could not patch something like a stereo 31 band graphic EQ in front of the earbud amp and reset the response of the earbuds back to what you remember your reference sounding like. It would be the closet thing to doing a measurement in the earbud space and trying to compensate for that. But then if you are going to check and use earbuds you can also check and use a decent set of headphones. Earbuds are OK for checking things like stereo separation being a little too wide and perhaps bringing that in a little. John there was no magic sauce. All I did with the bottom end was to roll a little more around 40 Hz or so. I created a steeper HPF and just set it around the point where there was not much subby stuff going on down there. Stopped the earbuds from rattling was the main aim of that. I also brought the stereo image in a tad making it less total left right in the earbuds. Made that a bit more comfortable for the listener. I was even thinking of going back to the mix and doing a slightly different mix for the earbuds too but then I realised that would have been far too much work.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/30 07:28:38
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I like the EP-630 ear buds. I have basic black but they are now available in 5 different colors. AND..... more than that.... they boast a frequency range from 6hz to 32khz...... yup... you read that right.... Up in the dog whistle range all the way down to seismic activity range. Certainly the color would affect that range a bit don't ya think? (sarcasm in ten did) Seriously ...... these are noise reducing with fairly comfortable rubber ear cups .... they come with 3 different sized pairs of cups so you can choose the right size for you. I have found that I can comfortably wear these almost all day while driving or working without discomfort. I will sometimes wear them while cutting the grass with no music playing rather than grabbing the foam ear plugs I would normally use. In the studio, I do not use them for mixing or mastering. But I have used them a time or two to track a vocal. I think they shine in this role since the mic bleed from them is non-existant compared to normal headphones. http://www.handspreca.com/creative-labs-ep-630a-noise-isolating-earphones.html I buy them from Amazon and normally can get them in the $15/pair price range. I normally buy 3 to 5 sets at a time since when I work and use them they tend to have a shorter life than if I took care of them and only used them in leisure time pursuits.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Tom Riggs
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/30 08:32:33
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I am not a master mixer by any means but the way I approach it is I make sure the bass and the kick have some content at higher frequencies. In the case of the kick I try to pick a kick and eq it so I can hear the smack of the beater against the head not just the boomy part. That way if the playback system lacks low end the kick is still there. I take a similar approach to the bass so that the overtones of the fundamental help out when the bottom is lacking. Just make sure there is room in the mids for the vocals and other instruments. Usually sweeping an eq with the kick or the bass soloed helps to find the upper frequencies that can be helpful. I also check my mixes on several phones and ear buds as well as the studio monitors and stereo and regular pc speakers.
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Grem
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Re: Earbud EQ
2013/08/30 08:59:43
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musicjohnnie I have found that there are different mixes for regular cds and itunes. Mostly because of the platform being mixed for. Hence the difference in sound for iPod and such
bitflipper The reason I posted that graph was to illustrate that it isn't really even possible to compensate for those earbuds' spectral deficiencies.
This sums it up.
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