stevee9c6
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Early Adopter ... enough.
I was one of the first to buy the V-Studio 700 and have been a solid Cake user from the first iteration of Sonar. I now am convinced that this has not turned out well and am migrating to a new platform. As much as I hate to admit it, the Pro Tools/Mac fanboy club, which I have long dissed, have the inner track on professional audio production. This is tough, I am very comfortable with Sonar and I have found PT10 not user friendly coming from Sonar. Unfortunately, I feel that the Roland aquisition of Cake is pushing Cake away from prior core values in the direction of the lowest common denominator home recording enthusiast. To whit, the V-studio 700 was heralded as the "Flagship" of the line. It is clearly now a hindsite most likely due to very lackluster sales. I own the system. I own X2. I have hundreds of hours of work archived in Sonar format. I guess, I will at a minimum maintain my Win7 system.... but I am moving on.
post edited by stevee9c6 - 2012/11/04 18:41:18
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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kday
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 13:03:38
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What things specifically needs to fixed? As reported Cakewalk says they're trying to identify as many bugs as possible to attempt to correct. They need input in Ryan's thread of what you think needs to be fixed. They did indicate they have a bug fix update coming lets try to give them as much info about what we think became broke from 8.5.3 to X2. This may be the last shot at restoring the V700 system to it's former glory 8.5.3.
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stevee9c6
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 14:49:35
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Edited to reflect inaccuarate link.
post edited by stevee9c6 - 2012/11/04 18:42:53
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 14:54:30
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I think Cake has put a lot of work and effort into new features as this is what looks nice on ads and hopefully sells the software and increases market share.
There are definitely some good new features in X2 that I like a lot. Most of them, however, I would trade for a properly working channel control section. This is what annoys me the most. Other stuff like snap settings et. al. I can certainly live with.
I believe that in the quest for new features, Cake had to put control surface issues 2nd or 3rd (well, I wish) but hopefully not last. I hope that once mouse mix association is satisfied (and just look at how calm the X2 forum is these days compared to X1a - X1c I reckon this might be soon), Cake will hopefully revamp the control surface implementations.
I still got older controller lying around that work off the MackieControll.dll. I try to find the time this week to plug one in and try to access the ProChannel and the plugs ... I'll doubt it'll be a smooth ride there, either ...
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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gowi
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 15:10:10
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According to businessweek.com Roland Corp reported a loss (in USD) of $26M in 2010, a loss of $8.6M in 2011, and a loss of $24M for 2012. If these numbers are true, I don't how any company with these numbers can continue to operate and be successful in the future without restructuring and layoffs, plus discontinuing products that don't sell well (ex VStudio series). Whose to say if Roland will still be around in 5 years. Maybe Korg will buy their music division.
I would like a control service as well, however it won't be a Roland product. It will most likely be Mackie or SSL Nucleus.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 15:20:44
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Today's world is short-lived. Products come and products go. I started wondering where the IPad will go when they started selling it ... I still don't know what I would need a toy like that for ... but I'd bet my VS-700 system that it will be superseded by the next money maker soon ... R & D costs for Roland must be incredibly high and some products they released lately (e.g. TD-30X drum module with even better pads and even higher price) make me wonder if they'd ever find enough people to buy and pay for the R & D ...
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2012/11/04 15:23:27
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Zo
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 15:59:42
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Steeve ..i feel you but switching to PT isn't about the VS 700 ? !
i also have the nucleus on my mind but i tell you wait and test , the drivers are terrible and people are still waiting for this to be fixed ...
Now let's talk about Sonar : this daw is excellent , cake is trying to do the right things , but if the guyz want to be the number "2" they have to propose control solutions !!! steinberg failed , no other daw proposes good surfaces (like (avid) for PT) and the VS 700 is really the best around after them (i'm not talking Tango , support is alwayz rock n roll , working great with a daw and just enought with another ,)
So what to do ? praising cake to do one ? i don't think so ... they don't decide ....
Roland ? even people working at Roland don't have the long term visisbility ...
So what ? i was seriously thinking of putting big money on the dev of one control surface beacuse there's a fukkkking market for that and we need one !! but time is what i don't have "3 kids , older 6 years old ;))
So what can we do ? : Lobby !!!!
We have to put the pressure on firms that knows how to do a controller to make one for sonar for exemple ....the new core app of sonar X.x is excellent , and they already have a model to enhance (the VS 700) ...we can also try to conviced Cakewalk to give them some infos about how the VS 700 have been implemented and how they would like to be (but they didn't managed to do since their moving marging are ridiculous within the Roland firm) ....
Is that all we can have (by we i'm talking all daw) : Ipad , Mackie , euphonix (toy) ect ....
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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Zo
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 16:14:04
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stevee9c6
You can not fix this. Roland has discontinued this system. I suggest that anyone who doubts this read thru the Roland Corporate Vision/Investors Report. You may wish to note that this is the current status of the V-Studio 700 system. http://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/products/productlist/483 Please note: This is a "Legacy Product".
I am certain that Ryan and other folks at Cake have concerns for those of us who spent > $4k on this, but they are tiny cogs in the Roland Empire. I would surmise that any furthur driver or bug fixes for this is being done on the side simply out of loyalty to us as a group and is not sanctioned by Roland.
This is about money folks. Read thru the new products that "Roland" is introducing. The V-700 base user group is simply far too tiny to waste R&D funds on.
stick a fork in it... it's done.
I would the VS 700 would be in legacy because of the VS 800 is coming ...... even if there's not alot of people with theVS 700 , it's the "vitrine" of cake/roland ...the "look what we can do" item to earn respect ...and so even if they lose money they gotta do it !! FIAT is making money with Fiat , Alfarromeo ect ....but FERRARI has been kept like it's supposed to be "an heritage of how to make the best cars in the world" Roland has a name , and have been a major player in what music is today .... so if cake don't push them , we should try to push cake ...to push them .. A-B ; B-C ; C-D (Chales relation) lol A-D A=US D=Roland
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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stevee9c6
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 16:23:03
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Guys... for the record. I have zero problems with Cake and or Sonar. These guys have been great for years. I like Sonar. I am exploring all options at present, however I already own PT10. There is simply nothing I need in the V700 any longer. I use Kurzweils new workstation and have another Roland keyboard as well as a CME controller. I am no longer even using the 700 rack and the console is used only for transport controls and mixing.
post edited by stevee9c6 - 2012/11/04 16:26:34
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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Zo
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 16:58:22
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is the VS 700 working with PT ?
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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Crg
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 17:34:15
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This is about money folks. Read thru the new products that "Roland" is introducing. The V-700 base user group is simply far too tiny to waste R&D funds on. stick a fork in it... it's done. The V-700 system listed on the link you provided is the V-Studio REAC system. The important difference being REAC.
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Crg
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 17:38:22
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gowi
According to businessweek.com Roland Corp reported a loss (in USD) of $26M in 2010, a loss of $8.6M in 2011, and a loss of $24M for 2012. If these numbers are true, I don't how any company with these numbers can continue to operate and be successful in the future without restructuring and layoffs, plus discontinuing products that don't sell well (ex VStudio series). Whose to say if Roland will still be around in 5 years. Maybe Korg will buy their music division.
I would like a control service as well, however it won't be a Roland product. It will most likely be Mackie or SSL Nucleus.
I guess you've noticed there's a bit of a depression going on? Economic numbers are not good for everyone. I garauntee all the gear manufacturors are having a tough time.
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stevee9c6
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 18:56:20
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My mistake Craig... I did not realize that was the REAC version. I have edited my post to correct this. I still feel that this system has been written off by corporate. In response to the question of PT and the V700. No, the controller does not work at all. I would assume that the rack would work as an interface as PT is generally compatible with all ASIO devices. I don't know though. I use the Lynx HILO as the interface currently as it's conversion and monitor control just sounds better to my ears, c/w the V700. Oddly enough the controller does work utilizing the Lynx as long as I am using Sonar.
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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Crg
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/04 19:29:12
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stevee9c6
My mistake Craig... I did not realize that was the REAC version. I have edited my post to correct this. I still feel that this system has been written off by corporate. In response to the question of PT and the V700. No, the controller does not work at all. I would assume that the rack would work as an interface as PT is generally compatible with all ASIO devices. I don't know though. I use the Lynx HILO as the interface currently as it's conversion and monitor control just sounds better to my ears, c/w the V700. Oddly enough the controller does work utilizing the Lynx as long as I am using Sonar.
Who knows? If you can't get the REAC version, what can you get? I'm about to bump my system up to X1d with the VS700. I'm hoping they'll see the light and keep things current with X2. All lot of us VS 700 forum users don't realize where the VS 700 is being used. As a mixdown console, mastering console, in some artists composition studio. Roland really needs to show some faith in this product before the fans get pissed.
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Mully
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 04:19:26
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I get Steve's vibe totally. No surprise... I know I know...  The reality is that PT/Avid has the market cornered when it comes to hardware and software. There isn't a better player in the field and of course that helps them dominate...and they do dominate. Cake pales by comparison (to the might of PT) as do most other platforms and the question inevitably becomes why stick with Sonar? The answer is because it simply is the best platform particularly in regard to the features (IMO). When it comes to hardware integration however... the Roland connection has not provided long term joy and we are forced to consider other options where that is important to the user and any user that spends the thousands we (typically) have, is quite serious in their investment. Yes we would all love Cake or Roland to support X2 with total 700C integration like 8.5.3 but that dream surely is over? How long has it been?? The only mention I've seen to date is in effect, 'one day we might get a coupla things working a little better'. Tell me again where to look for the support that's coming...please. Please. They just need to come clean one way or the other and this is the only -ve I can recall about Cake to date really. For those that wonder what the big deal is....the 700C is now glorified transport and fader control. Making another 'broken' list has gotten old but keep the dream alive. The only suggestion I could make Steve is to consider another surface like the MCU perhaps however the lure of the Avid options will always win..if you have the coin. I wish you the very best with your decision(s) going forward and hope that you keep us in the loop so we know what you decide and how it works out. Cheers.
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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Westside Steve
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 07:28:04
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Mully I did read your list of problems, I just can't seem to post from the Droid.
I guess all I need is a basic transport so I hope everytjhing doesn't crash and bur too soon.
I wish my to stalwarts Roland and Care werent spiraling downward.
I can't stand the smarmy arrogance of PT users.
If I'm forced to switch I might go Mac, but their fans are just about as bad.
Maybe Roland could sell Sonar to Microsoft?
:(
WSS
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Mully
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 08:30:17
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Hiya WSS... dang that avatar makes me thirsty. Yeah I know what you mean about the other users of PT and macs.... it's not as big a problem here because PT users are rife and don't seem to know the differences anyway coz they are busy getting degrees in audio and getting turned into droids themselves. The mac people are always entertaining but I like both camps anyway... the mac cost just makes no sense to me. Now imagine if Microsoft bought Cake? THAT would be interesting..... it would perhaps give them a leg up to shake the mac world a bit...would be very interesting to see something like that unfold. I reckon Steve you are in the best position using the 700 as you do. That will see it through for you for quite some time to come I'd think. Good result. Cheers! PS: just had a listen to Battle of Lake Erie and that banjo is excellent.... whole thing is excellent actually, love your voice mate.
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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dahjah
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 09:05:26
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No reason why Roland can't keep up support for the vs, look how long Avid supports their controllers. But this is the way of Roland.
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John T
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 09:51:03
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For the most part, Roland don't have to do anything. The v700 has not changed, it's X2 that's not fully compatible with it.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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e.Blue
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 12:32:47
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I own most of the major DAWs and SONAR is still my favorite by far. The main reason that I bought the others was so that I can receive projects into my studio in ANY format . Once I get a project in, regardless of the format, I figure out how to export it so that I can get the tracks into SONAR for mixing.
Even with its lack of updates, the VS700 system is still a well-built, rock-solid mixing platform. Having the other DAWs in my studio also affords me the time to also become familiar with them. This knowledge comes in handy in case I'm in a situation where I don't have access to SONAR.
Also a lot of people don't seem to realize how revolutionary the ProChannel system is. My guess is that Apple or AVID will have to add something similar to Logic or Pro Tools before the world will hail it for what it really is. Propellerheads has already sort of copied it with their Rack Extension feature.
Now that I have VS700 functionality under Windows 8, I have at least a few more years before I need to decide on if I want to stick with SONAR as my primary DAW. During that time I will continue to increase my familiarity with the other DAWs. When the time comes to replace the VS700 I should hopefully be in a better position to decide what will work best for me going forward.
-e.B
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TerraSin
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 12:34:49
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Honestly, I'm very close to throwing in the towel with Cake as well. The lack of support, especially for people who have spent thousands with them over the years, is completely unacceptable. They put out a flagship control system and then practically forget it exists despite the problems with it is insulting to those of us who bought into it.
What I want to know is where those Win 8 drivers are that Seth told us were coming when Windows 8 went retail? From what I understand, when he made the post about it a bit ago, they were pretty much done and needed a little tweaking but would be released along with the OS. However, all seems to be quiet while those of us who have the hardware sit waiting as normal.
Maybe they are too busy working on X3?
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e.Blue
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 13:05:23
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TerraSin
Honestly, I'm very close to throwing in the towel with Cake as well. The lack of support, especially for people who have spent thousands with them over the years, is completely unacceptable. They put out a flagship control system and then practically forget it exists despite the problems with it is insulting to those of us who bought into it.
What I want to know is where those Win 8 drivers are that Seth told us were coming when Windows 8 went retail? From what I understand, when he made the post about it a bit ago, they were pretty much done and needed a little tweaking but would be released along with the OS. However, all seems to be quiet while those of us who have the hardware sit waiting as normal.
Maybe they are too busy working on X3?
VStudio drivers are not developed by Cakewalk. They are built/maintained by Roland. You can submit an inquiry here. I've submitted a couple and although I've never been told that the drivers will not be developed. No one seems to know if/when then will be released. -e.B
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kday
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 13:51:29
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Look for NAMM 2013 for for all the updates and announcements.
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jayson
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/05 19:46:34
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e.Blue
I own most of the major DAWs and SONAR is still my favorite by far. The main reason that I bought the others was so that I can receive projects into my studio in ANY format . Once I get a project in, regardless of the format, I figure out how to export it so that I can get the tracks into SONAR for mixing.
-e.B
Hi e.Blue, I noticed in your sig that you have Studio One 2 and was wondering how it works with the VS-700C? They've been a number of one day sales that I've been tempted to jump on but have also read that their are problems using the VS-700C with it. Cheers, jayson
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 01:20:57
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Mully
The only suggestion I could make Steve is to consider another surface like the MCU perhaps however the lure of the Avid options will always win..if you have the coin.
Hi Mully, I did a test last night with my MCU clone and couldn't get the ProChannel control to work at all ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2708978&mpage=1#2709155). Other users with real MCU are having the same problems. Obviously the ProChannel needs a lot of work to be controlled from any surface ... which is bad news ... and good news as it is a problem for Cake to fix and not Roland and (hopefully eventually) Cake will also fix it for the VS-700 ...
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2012/11/06 01:22:10
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Mully
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 04:44:26
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Hiya Bertl... this doesn't surprise me to be honest as the PC seems pretty innovative and if they don't have core functions working properly, then there is no chance for the PC.
I think if they just got the basic stuff all working on the 700 we would all be quite happy. When you have a mega dollar surface that even looks great, it bites to not be able to do even the core functions like eq and plugs... so the PC side of things is no surprise and I only gave it a quick attempt with the 700 before throwing hands in the air like I did so long ago now with X1.
If this corrective surgery does actually rely on Roland, then we can kiss all hope goodbye now as they are making huge losses and are not obviously likely to burn more capital on keeping us minority users on board. It appears clear that Cake are keeping quiet because the corporate masters deem this so and that is no blame on them... just the way the master's leads are tightened in this environment.
Thanks for the update Bertl.... it's looking more an more like the impact of this varies for different users with regard to how frustrating their surface now is for them. Personally I find it good that many can cope with all this and use their gear with no impeding drama etc.
Cheers!
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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e.Blue
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 11:32:10
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jayson
e.Blue
I own most of the major DAWs and SONAR is still my favorite by far. The main reason that I bought the others was so that I can receive projects into my studio in ANY format . Once I get a project in, regardless of the format, I figure out how to export it so that I can get the tracks into SONAR for mixing.
-e.B
Hi e.Blue,
I noticed in your sig that you have Studio One 2 and was wondering how it works with the VS-700C? They've been a number of one day sales that I've been tempted to jump on but have also read that their are problems using the VS-700C with it.
Cheers,
jayson
Hi Jayson, Studio One 2 works about as well as any other DAW using the Mackie control template. The tracks & buses are fully controllable and the transport works as well. I also noticed that some of the buttons on the lower left of the console also seem to select various functions in StudioOne2 as well. As I mentioned I mainly stay in other DAWs just long enough to figure out how to export the tracks to SONAR. However, I'd have to say that the console support for the V700C is about as good as (if not better than) any of the other DAWs that I have tried. -e.B
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TerraSin
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 12:36:53
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"Roland is working on drivers for Win 8 as I type this. As they did with XP, Vista, and 7, they will have official drivers available when the OS is fully released to the public through retail channels. Until then they will continue to test and refine the drivers for Win 8. HTH, SP" http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2650996 Apparently someone here is lying, be it Roland or Cake, and I'm tired of making excuses or listening to people make excuses for both.
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kday
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 14:19:01
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Considering the fact they left off the VS series products, to me indicates that they have a simultaneous announcement for upgrades because the VS 20 & VS 100 are still selling.
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e.Blue
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
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Re:Early Adopter ... enough.
2012/11/06 15:26:45
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