East West or Kontact?

for orchestral I'd choose EW, for rock I'd choose Kontakt. 

I have silver, gold and plat additions of EW.   I REALLY like them.  I'm probably going to get hollywood strings when I can find the budget.  They just really sound great.

Also watch out for sales.  soundsonline does sales ALL the time, and you can usually get a pretty good deal.

I too have the free version of EW (when they were giving it away) and I also have Komplete 6 (Kontakt 4)

Also: GPO, & Miroslav.

Having several string libraries, I can assure you that  they all sound different and where one will not work and sound right, the next one just might. That has happened numerous times. Sometimes it's the cheap ($) GPO that sounds right and sometimes not. 

If you are doing soundtracks and orchestral type stuff E/W or another top end orchestral library would be essential since it sounds better for that style then K4 and GPO. K4 however is a very good "go-to" string orchestral library for many, many composers.   

My thoughts on string libraries.... find what you like, what sounds good to you, then buy it, even if it's more then you wanted to spend. 

You will not regret buying a good package, but you will regret buying the cheap alternative. 

For orchestral work you cannot go wrong with the East West Libraries;
 
You probably are aware there is an iLok requirement.
 
The Play engine has had some growing pains but the latest version has been rock solid for me.
 
You might also want to check out LASS. I don't have it but a friend does. Absolutely Awesome.
 
Again, for orchestral work these libraries are (IMO) the best out there; I don't know if they'd be my first choice when sweetening a rock tune.
 
I've only used the 24 bit version so I cannot offer comparisons with the 16 bit samples; I would hope there is a difference.  :)

For orchestral music or rock, KONTAKT wins this contest easily, imo. 

EWQL is one sample developer. They make a very good orchestral library, but there are a number of very good (to great, depending on your opinion) from many different KONTAKT sample developers check out Kirk Hunter Studios (who I work with), Audio Bros LASS, VSL, Cinesamples, ProjectSam and others. There's also a wealth of great rock libraries for KONTAKT that, imo, far surpass EWQLs offerings. Check out Orange Tree Samples Evolution Guitar and bass libraries (who I've also advised), NI Scarbee bass libraries, NI's own Abbey Road Drum line, Sonic Reality's Drum Masters, Steven Slate Drums, NI Scarbee Electric Piano libraries and a bunch of different sample developers of rock-related libraries. 

Check out the Kirk Hunter group buy thread.  Pop and Rock strings works in the free Kontakt player. Its a snip at $99 and it could go lower yet.

Sorry guys but EW rocks.

I know a lot of it is personal opinion but you can check out the demo's and see for yourself and that is what you should base your purchase on. You know the sound you are looking for so make sure what you are buying will give you that sound.

They do have a mixer on the Symphonic Orchestra page where you can here the difference between the mic positions and the different mics blended together. Given that SO is an older program and yet still stands up to the newer programs out there shows just how good it is. Hollywood Strings and Brass have raised the bar. Kontakt is easier to work with than Play so that is another consideration. I would suggest that if you go with Symphonic Orchestra go for Gold and then buy the close mics add on they sell. You will save money and the stage mics are wet enough as it is so the hall mics just make things too muddy for my taste. That way you get the close sound which adds difinition and the stage mics which give you the big hollywod sound while saving a few dollars.

Again, you are going to hear what everybody thinks is the best but use your own ears and choose the one that gives you the sound you are looking for. If you have any questions about EW products I own almost all of them so feel free to ask.

...do you think the EW Platinum Symphonic Orchestra (24 bit and 3 mic positions as opposed to 1) is worth paying $400 more than the Gold (16 bit, stage mic only)?

IMO, no. Don't be put off by 16-bit samples. They're going to become 32 bits when you render them, so you'll still have the extra resolution for subsequent DSP and mixing. This may sound like heresy, but there is very little value in 24-bit over 16-bit sample libraries.

I really like the sound of EWQLSO, but I don't do dongles. Fortunately, there are very good Kontakt-based alternatives. And once you've invested in the full Kontakt it opens up a whole world of cheap and free libraries, stuff you probably never knew you needed, like Tibetan Singing Bowls or hammered dulcimers.

g_randybrown


Hey Mathew,
Why would you have all 3?
Thanks,
Randy

Because I bought silver, loved it so much I then bought gold.  A year or two later, Plat was on a super sale, so I upgraded again.

Now I usually use plat, but silver has a bunch of simplified sounds that I still like.

Kroneborge

g_randybrown


Hey Mathew,
Why would you have all 3?
Thanks,
Randy

Because I bought silver, loved it so much I then bought gold.  A year or two later, Plat was on a super sale, so I upgraded again.

Now I usually use plat, but silver has a bunch of simplified sounds that I still like.

ah, ok.... thanks Mathew!

Granted, I'm working for Kirk Hunter Studios, which makes orchestral libraries, on their current Group Buy (60% off on their top of line orchestral libraries at the moment), so you can take my views with a grain of salt, of course.  But did you note that I very favorably mentioned orchestral libraries from Audio Bros LASS, VSL, Cinesamples, ProjectSam and others?

I certainly think Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass sound good (I have the lite/freebie version of HS), as do a number of their competitors libraries on the KONTAKT platform. However, the view I've heard from multiple pros (I'm a hobbyist) who own EWQL orchestral libraries and one or more of the better KONTAKT libraries is that EWQL orchestral libraries tend to have a great deal of articulations but aren't as easy to use and that all of the individual articulations can slow down their workflow, not to mention all of the problems with the Play platform which seems to have been covered on every music making community ad nauseam. 

As far as demos, I listen to them looking for flaws. Demos are always made to NOT draw attention to the shortcomings of a library and some folks do some sneaky tricks when they make them (using all sorts of outboard effects, doing extensive midi editing, etc.) I'd also say that this isn't 2003, the sound quality of a library is incredibly important, but so is usability -- so the workflow and the quality of the programming/scripting is more important than ever.  Ten years ago, it was fine to have a huge library with tons of articulations and no scripting, not today. That scripting can almost be as important as the quality of the samples themselves when it comes to complex orchestral libraries, imo. 

tom1


eDrummist:
 
Granted, I'm working for Kirk Hunter Studios, which makes orchestral libraries, on their current Group Buy (60% off on their top of line orchestral libraries at the moment), so you can take my views with a grain of salt, of course.
 
 
A grain of salt?  How about a shovel full of salt    :)
    

Okay, say that if you like, but it would be valuable if you used some logic and discernment too. Re-read, I praised Cinebrass and LASS and said what I liked about EWQL. I'd absolutely buy LASS and Cinebrass over EQWL easy, to be perfectly blunt. FTR, my profession isn't advising sample devs. It's more of an extension of my hobby.  FTR, my background is leading and consulting on interactive marketing at major brands.  I look at helping devs as more of an extension of my leisure time, it's not a source of even 3% of my income. 

I'm doing some work for Kirk, but I always give my honest opinions and even disclose my affiliations, even for devs whose products where I'm just a customer who has given some free advice (which is mostly the case). I don't think dishonest people disclose things. I can tell you for certain that one of the devs were discussing has a habit of using sockpuppets in forums. I would never associate with developers who engage in those kinds of practices. But a poster who lists his affiliations -- even when they're just developers where he's been a regular customer and started giving the dev some free advice -- is hardly something you need to take a shot at. I tell my affiliations, not exactly something someone trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes would do. So discount my opinion, but the cheap shots bring down the civility of a forum regardless if you put a smiley emoticon at the end of it. 

edrummist

tom1


eDrummist:

Granted, I'm working for Kirk Hunter Studios, which makes orchestral libraries, on their current Group Buy (60% off on their top of line orchestral libraries at the moment), so you can take my views with a grain of salt, of course.


A grain of salt?  How about a shovel full of salt    :)
  

Okay, say that if you like, but it would be valuable if you used some logic and discernment too. Re-read, I praised Cinebrass and LASS and said what I liked about EWQL. I'd absolutely buy LASS and Cinebrass over EQWL easy, to be perfectly blunt. FTR, my profession isn't advising sample devs. It's more of an extension of my hobby.  FTR, my background is leading and consulting on interactive marketing at major brands.  I look at helping devs as more of an extension of my leisure time, it's not really something I've looked at as a serious source of income, more as my helping out devs whose products I love.  Honestly, I've always looked at helping devs as a favor, and candidly, I've primarily done it for free, but don't want to advertise that, because once when I did, a bunch of devs contact me and I don't have time to do this anymore since I have two young kids. 

I don't think dishonest people disclose things like that. I can tell you for certain that one of the devs we're discussing has a reputation for using sockpuppets (fake accounts they use to pose as real customers) in forums. I would never associate with developers who engage in those kinds of practices. But a poster who lists his affiliations as I have -- even when they're just developers where he's been a regular customer and started giving the dev some free advice -- is hardly something I think you need to take a shot at. I tell my affiliations, not exactly something someone trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes would do. It makes me an easy target for someone like you. So go ahead and address the points I made intelligently, but the cheap shots add no value to the conversation and bring down the civility of a forum regardless if you put a smiley emoticon at the end of it.  It's not intelligent conversation that adds value either. 

agape


Just took a listen to the Kirk Hunter strings. Not bad, but not really impressed either.  As a friend of mine used to say- "Sounds great if you want to sound like that." Never was sure how to take that.

That's fine, we all have different preferences. I only mentioned Kirk Hunter Studios because I'm working with him on the GB, it was a bit of quick aside, not in any way central to my point. Audio Bros is also having a sale on LASS for $999 USD, another top notch library, imo.  See, that was just a passing reference, not my main point or critical to my main point. My point was and is that there are a number of KONTAKT orchestral and rock libraries that I find are equal to or superior to EWQL. I didn't even get into all of the stability problems EWQL or EWQL as a platform vs KONTAKT (which, I think KONTAKT wins easily).  So if you don't like Kirk Hunter Studios libraries, I'd suggest you compare LASS to EWQL Hollywood Strings and Cinebrass/Cinebrass Pro to EWQL. Now try using those libraries and tell me which platform is more stable, more intuitive and which workflow is simpler and more intuitive, those KONTAKT devs or EQWL. Of course, usability varies from dev to dev, but the KONTAKT platform gives you a lot more options of course, as there are a bunch of great devs that make orchestral and rock libraries for it as opposed to EWQL which has a limit of one dev.

tom1


eDrummist:
 
well, you took my response a little too seriously; Even a smiley doesn't seem to work anymore.
 
I have not a problem with you pushing Kirk Hunter libraries. In fact, I wouldn't mind owning a few of them myself.
 
However, when you come into a thread to sell your product why not just say something like: "we got a sale, check out some samples, go to our website"
 
you said:
 
eDrummist: However, the view I've heard from multiple pros (I'm a hobbyist) who own EWQL orchestral libraries and one or more of the better KONTAKT libraries is that EWQL orchestral libraries tend to have a great deal of articulations but aren't as easy to use and that all of the individual articulations can slow down their workflow;
 
Why even bother saying this; Multiple pros? how many 3, 4, 500? The musicians I know (including myself) love these articulations; They are extremely useful if you are trying to emulate an orchestra.
 
then you go on to say:
 
eDrummist: not to mention all of the problems with the Play platform which seems to have been covered on every music making community ad nauseam.
 
Most of the criticism of the Play Platform was over two years ago. Have you ever used the Play engine?  I've been using the Play platform for three years. The first version I had was a bit flaky, but still usable. The upgrades have been better each time and for me, an actual user, the latest version has been rock solid.
 
Good luck with your sale; I mean that.
   

Seriously?  You write " However, when you come into a thread to sell your product why not just say something like: "we got a sale, check out some samples, go to our website" I'm just going to come right out and say it, but your latest post is even more insulting than your first and you really haven't made a helpful point beyond letting us know that you're a fan of EWQL. That's fine, but why do you feel some need to attack others with a different point of view? FTR, I'm not having a sale. 

I told you that my living isn't working for sample devs. I mainly do it as an extension of my hobby. Over the years I've given advice to three popular developers of KONTAKT libraries -- around the same time and even introduced two of them; to competitor drum sample developers and I regularly post that ToonTrack's Superior Drummer is my favorite and that isn't one of the devs I've helped. I'm a senior level marketing professional who works with major brands (I bet you've owned a few of them and even more that our clients of my business). I'm a former semi-pro musician. I love samples, VSTs and making music on a DAW. The fact that I help out some devs (down to just two, as I no longer have the time) does not by nature invalidate my opinion, as you continuously assert. The fact is, I generally have helped devs for free whose products I love as an extension of my hobby. I only disclose any relationship because my profession is interactive marketing and I believe in being a good example on ethics -- even though most in my profession would say its a gray area to disclose non-monetary relationships where the developer actually is the one who derives benefit, not me. I'm a regular member of KVR, VI-Control, Cakewalk Forums, etc. I'm a regular paying customer of lots of sample library developers and have bought lots of libraries from EWQL, years ago.  FTR, yes, I do have a lite version of EWQL Hollywood Strings. 

I didn't come to this thread to sell stuff as you asserted. If you noticed, my initial post was quickly echoed by two other posters who mentioned my post. I mentioned Kirk Hunter Studios products AS WELL as a bunch of his direct competitors AND I praised those competitors. I'd easily choose LASS and Cinebrass Pro (both of which, imo, sound beautiful) over EWQL's offerings for usability alone; I'm not saying EWQL libraries don't sound good or made this EQWL vs Kirk Hunter Studios libraries, I didn't. Consequently, I don't think your logic in your cheap shots at me stands up. I'd say, leave it. You took your cheap shots twice. I got it, you clearly haven't shown the substance to make strong points so you resort to cheap shots. Great. Your point has been made twice. Got it. Now let's get back to the topic and not turn this into your making it personal and questioning people's motives.