Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap

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Sixfinger
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2011/08/28 14:27:45 (permalink)

Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap

I have some real drum and guitar tracks with natural human wanderings in time ( a good thing).
 
I am having success with Audio Snaps Set Project From Clip on the drum track, and editing the clip map I am able to get the quarter note beats to line up the the grid just fine.
 
My question is how do I get the inbetween hits, the 8ths and or 16ths to line up as well? ( I plan to add midi tracks and it seems if I had the drums on the grid gentle quanizing of my midi should be just about right)

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 14:37:00 (permalink)
    Open up the Audio snap palette and then change the resolution to what you want 16ths 8ths etc, then lower the threshold if need be to have those transients detected
    #2
    Sixfinger
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 16:17:48 (permalink)
    ah but, the transient markers are all present, its the clip map edit points that are only available in quater notes, or beats. I have tried changing the beats from 4 to 8 and doubled the initial tempo, and that's not working out for me either.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 17:30:04 (permalink)
    Brundlefly is the audiosnap expert but as I understand it the quantize resolution sets what the transients snap to. Set your quantize to the resolution you want. That's how I do it anyway.


    #4
    Sixfinger
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 20:28:42 (permalink)

    Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies
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    Sixfinger
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 20:29:58 (permalink)
    I can get the beats to conform to the grid fine, it's the off beats I would like to have happen too. Hope the pic helps clarify my question

    Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies
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    Rick O Shay
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 20:56:26 (permalink)
    When you click "quantize" a window pops up.  Are you setting the correct resoultion there? (can be different from resolution setting in the AudioSnap window)  Also, do you have the "Audio Snap Beats" box checked?
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    Sixfinger
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/28 21:05:30 (permalink)
    I am not quantizing the audio, rather trying to edit the clip map so that the existing audio lines up with the grid. This way my next phase of adding Midi tracks things should line up nicely. And it is working on the beats, it's the inbetween beats I cannot edit in the clip map edit mode

    Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 02:32:04 (permalink)
    Ah think I've got you now. You're talking about editing the clip tempo map. I presume you could do that and just tell it there are 16 beats per measure, although I guess that would make the tempo way off. I'm don't think that it'll automatically map to 16ths.

    Brundlefly - where are you??
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 02:53:24 (permalink)
    Yes, Set Project from Clip has a maximum resolution of quarter notes, regardless of time signature or the number of beats you set in the clip map. But it would be a little unusual to need a tempo map with a resolution of 8ths if the piece is basically a straight tempo with a little natural variation.

    The unmapped 8ths should be close enough to the mark that a part quantized to 8ths against the quarter-note tempo map would not sound out of sync. If anything, it will help to preserve the natural feel of the timing if the 8ths have a little breathing room.

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    #10
    brundlefly
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 02:56:30 (permalink)
    Brundlefly - where are you??



    You rang? 

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 03:10:12 (permalink)
    AH you're here now on your white charger.

    Glad you got here too, I was starting to get out of my depth.

    Audiosnap is something I've only recently started using end even now I only dabble in from time to time. I really need to get more into it when I get time.
    #12
    brundlefly
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 03:31:18 (permalink)
    Ha! Love the drowning emoticon. 

    You know, the funny thing is that I don't even really need most of what Audiosnap does. I just think it's a really interesting feature, and enjoy playing around with it. Maybe it'll come in handy when I finally get fed up with my day job, and hang out a shingle as a SONAR trainer/technician. 

    .



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    #13
    Sixfinger
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 09:00:41 (permalink)
    Thank you for the clarification. I was able to double the initial tempo then leave it at 4 beats. But then there were two or three mysterious new transients added at the beginning which were causing the 1 in the clip map editor to be over where the 2 should be, I ended up having to move these new transients way to the begining and disable them before I could move and edit the 1 in the map to where, or close to where it, should be. From there all went well and succes has been achieved.

    Now if I can figure a way to cut my entire new tempo map exactly in half?

    Brundlefly, I expect you are right that 8th note resolultion is likely unneeded, and this does explain in my mind why the maximum beats is 14 (for odd meters or trips) Like you I find it fun to know how it all works and what it's limitations are. I did feel in this case with a few noticable timing lurches (not horrible, just noticable) that the finer resolution would serve be better.  Thank you

    I have peered into the window

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    #14
    brundlefly
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    Re:Edit Clip Map Question - Audio Snap 2011/08/29 11:27:16 (permalink)
    SixfingerNow if I can figure a way to cut my entire new tempo map exactly in half?


    Below is the method I came up with to do this. But it was intended to change the tempo of audio along with shifting the tempo map. In your case, you'd obviously want to skip step 1, and you'd also need to set audio clip timebase to Absolute for any clips that don't start at time zero so they don't move along with the timeline.
    1. Enable Auto-stretch (a.k.a. Clip Follows Project in Auto-stretch mode) on all audio clips.     
    2. Select a MIDI or audio clip that runs the length of the project.     
    3. Go to Process > Fit to Time.     
    4. Convert the current Thru time to total frames (usually 30 frames/sec).     
    5. Divide that by the desired tempo change factor (e.g. 1.10 to get a 10% increase, 0.90 for a 10% decease).     
    6. Round and convert that new value to minutes:seconds:frames.     
    7. Enter that as the new Thru, and select Modify by Changing: Tempo Map.     
    8. Click OK. 


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