jaydrake
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Edit Filter
I'm really frustrated with the way editing envelopes is behaving. The shift click the envelop thing is cool, but half the time I can't see the envelope to shift click it, which means I have to wade thru the drop down on the edit tool in order to edit an envelope. It seems like certain envelopes on certain tracks just can't be seen unless they are enabled for editing.
I wish there was a way to enable/ disable all automation editing with a keystroke..., but actually, only because I can't see the envelopes to shift click them. This must be a bug, or perhaps I did something to inadvertently hide them...
Jay Drake www.drums2b.com Win XP Professional Sonar 8.53 Asus A8V Deluxe w/Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2 Gig DDR 400 Ram RME Hammerfall 9652 2 UAD-1's, version 4.8 MTPAV usb Midi Interface 10k rpm sata Audio Drive ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB Dual
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brundlefly
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 15:25:39
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Is this maybe a color/contrast issue?
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 16:01:18
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I think there's a hotkey/keybind that allows you to scroll through the automations... I haven't used that particular function yet, but I'm pretty sure I read about it.
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brundlefly
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 16:16:21
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think there's a hotkey/keybind that allows you to scroll through the automations... I haven't used that particular function yet, but I'm pretty sure I read about it. I think you're referrring to Shift+Scroll Wheel functionality. I haven't been able to make that work. It always pages the Track View instead of scrolling through envelopes (or data types as is suppoed to happen with the HUD open). EDIT: And this is without Wizmouse running, in case anyone is wondering.
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/12/29 17:27:54
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 17:47:22
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brundlefly
think there's a hotkey/keybind that allows you to scroll through the automations... I haven't used that particular function yet, but I'm pretty sure I read about it.
I think you're referrring to Shift+Scroll Wheel functionality. I haven't been able to make that work. It always pages the Track View instead of scrolling through envelopes (or data types as is suppoed to happen with the HUD open).
EDIT: And this is without Wizmouse running, in case anyone is wondering.
Dave, I think someone posted in another thread how to get that to work. I think ;)
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PeterMc
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 17:54:00
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Someone mentioned in another thread that there is an option to completely hide envelopes if they are not being edited. It's in the track view menu View>Display>Display Ghosted Data. Make sure that is not ticked and you should be able to vaguely see all envelopes - unless there's yet another envelope bug :)
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javahut
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 18:11:23
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I think that's the only problem I'm having with X1... only vaguely being able to see the envelopes that aren't being edited. I often like or need to be able to see all of the envelopes in a large number of tracks at one time in many cases. In 8.5.3 and before, I could show all tracks in track view and get some idea of what automation was doing what. In X1, if you show all tracks... it's impossible to get any kind of idea of what all the automation is doing at any time... as it's impossible to see any envelopes that aren't selected for editing in a track. It's just a sea of black & gray.
This, for me, is the only real issue I'm having with the new workflow in X1. I'd much rather they kept all envelopes in their correct colors all the time, but just make the envelope that's being edited bolder... and bring it to the front of all other envelopes when it's selected for editing. That, to me, would improve the "workflow" of editing envelopes tremendously over the way X1 is now.
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stickman393
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 18:15:45
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jaydrake
I'm really frustrated with the way editing envelopes is behaving. The shift click the envelop thing is cool, but half the time I can't see the envelope to shift click it, which means I have to wade thru the drop down on the edit tool in order to edit an envelope. It seems like certain envelopes on certain tracks just can't be seen unless they are enabled for editing.
I wish there was a way to enable/ disable all automation editing with a keystroke..., but actually, only because I can't see the envelopes to shift click them. This must be a bug, or perhaps I did something to inadvertently hide them...
Tweaking color schemes can really help a lot here. Quite a lot of initial negative impression of X1 could have been avoided by a more friendly default color scheme, in my opinion. Here's one I've been working on.
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PeterMc
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 18:22:25
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You can set the track view background to be a lighter colour. All ghosted envelopes are now visible. The only problem is that they are all black, so it's hard to tell which is which.
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Grem
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 19:42:47
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stickman393
Quite a lot of initial negative impression of X1 could have been avoided by a more friendly default color scheme, in my opinion.
I agree with this. I would love to change to colors to something better, but I couldn't get it to work/figure it out.
Grem
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chrisharbin
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 19:58:56
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PeterMc
You can set the track view background to be a lighter colour. All ghosted envelopes are now visible. The only problem is that they are all black, so it's hard to tell which is which.
Is it me or are some of them just a really dark green?
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himalaya
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/29 21:02:40
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javahut
This, for me, is the only real issue I'm having with the new workflow in X1. I'd much rather they kept all envelopes in their correct colors all the time, but just make the envelope that's being edited bolder... and bring it to the front of all other envelopes when it's selected for editing. That, to me, would improve the "workflow" of editing envelopes tremendously over the way X1 is now.
As a non-X1 Sonar user, I was expecting envelopes to work as you describe, but they don't according to your post. A shame. In fact, what you describe is already implemented in Sonar 8.5, but there is a bug, as some of us know, and the selected envelope ( the one that turns 'bold' ) losses focus if there are overlapping envelopes. It really begs the question: Do Cakewalk developers use Sonar for any serious work? If they did, they would quickly get as despondent by this implementation as some of us, they would realise the shortcomings of the envelope system, which users continously struggle with, and would re-design it to be easy, fast and powerful at the same time.
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Grem
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:05:52
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himalaya
A shame. In fact, what you describe is already implemented in Sonar 8.5, but there is a bug, as some of us know, and the selected envelope ( the one that turns 'bold' ) losses focus if there are overlapping envelopes.
I have X1. And I have worked extesivly with the new envelopes. They work much better than they ever did in 8.5. In fact, the way they are now was never available in 8.5! I'm not going to say that the evelopes are bug free. But I haven't found any and really enjoy working with them now.
Grem
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:11:31
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I couldnt get shift scroll wheel to work either - Shame cuz it sounded great-
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chrisharbin
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:23:24
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Lanceindastudio
I couldnt get shift scroll wheel to work either - Shame cuz it sounded great-
Yeah, me neither.
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:29:28
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Grem
himalaya
A shame. In fact, what you describe is already implemented in Sonar 8.5, but there is a bug, as some of us know, and the selected envelope ( the one that turns 'bold' ) losses focus if there are overlapping envelopes.
I have X1. And I have worked extesivly with the new envelopes. They work much better than they ever did in 8.5. In fact, the way they are now was never available in 8.5! I'm not going to say that the evelopes are bug free. But I haven't found any and really enjoy working with them now.
I guess you missed the somewhat lengthy thread about envelope bugs in X1 (some remaining from prior versions). But one nasty one that actually deletes env data if you "copy" it. I think they've improved 'creating' envelopes for sure- but there are a few really serious bugs otherwise with envelopes (still) that some of us have hit on (again).
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chrisharbin
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:32:53
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Haven't gotten that far yet lol! Really going slow here, but that sounds really nasty. I'm sure since that is what I'm mostly playing with right now I'll find it soon. 
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 00:58:50
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chrisharbin
Haven't gotten that far yet lol! Really going slow here, but that sounds really nasty. I'm sure since that is what I'm mostly playing with right now I'll find it soon.
You might want to peruse the thread I started recently "So how is everyone doing with Envelopes". We talk about a number of not so nice scenarios/bugs. Some relating to BUS envelopes are pretty difficult to workaround (if at all). And one, in particular, as I mentioned will actually delete the source envelope data if you try to paste a copy elsewhere. That's bad indeed. And for balance (and knowing how things are around here, grin) -- I'm not saying CW won't address these problems. I would hope they will and do. I'm just saying they exist as of now and are serious.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 01:16:47
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 01:21:23
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chrisharbin
It's a bummer for sure.
As an addition, Chris - it's bumping into bugs like the Bus envelope stuff (which is not all new) that makes me that much more aware that how people actually use a program like Sonar will, in fact, reveal different strengths and weaknesses. I know there are some who have never even used Bus envelopes. They might never need or want to know about the problems in that area.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 01:45:07
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ba_midi
chrisharbin
It's a bummer for sure.
As an addition, Chris - it's bumping into bugs like the Bus envelope stuff (which is not all new) that makes me that much more aware that how people actually use a program like Sonar will, in fact, reveal different strengths and weaknesses.
I know there are some who have never even used Bus envelopes. They might never need or want to know about the problems in that area.
Guilty!
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jaydrake
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 10:31:25
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Ok,... as for the track view display thing, that is global. My issue is that certain tracks don't display ghosted envelopes.
Secondly, it would be great to have the ability to customize the color of the ghosted automation, but I couldn't find that option.
3rd, yes some of the ghosted envelopes are greenish.
I'm creating a new project in X1 today, I'll see if that acts any differently...
Jay Drake www.drums2b.com Win XP Professional Sonar 8.53 Asus A8V Deluxe w/Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2 Gig DDR 400 Ram RME Hammerfall 9652 2 UAD-1's, version 4.8 MTPAV usb Midi Interface 10k rpm sata Audio Drive ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB Dual
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pzay
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Re:Edit Filter
2010/12/30 11:02:00
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Lanceindastudio
I couldnt get shift scroll wheel to work either - Shame cuz it sounded great-
Same here.... I hope this can be resolved soon.
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