Marah
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/03 23:15:53
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ORIGINAL: UnderTow
As for the rest of this thread and the speculation about a totally new, cross-platform DAW from Cakewalk/Roland... hmmm... I am not entirely convinced to put it mildly. My main argument against that idea is the whole V700 range and the fact that it was released with/for Sonar. Then again... it included a Phantom synth in its initial release so Cakewalk/Roland are not thinking in anyway similar to the way I think.
You could be right, especially the cross-platform part... not sure how important being cross-platform is, though it isn’t really a negative... assuming it's been baked in from the start and not retrofitted. I'm thinking that the V700 range serves two (three?) purposes. First, Roland has been releasing comparable all-in-wonders for ages, so on that count it's not unusual. More to the point, what the VS range does is help extend the life and value of the Sonar line (and brand) by "implanting" it into a standalone host, while at the same time further consummating the Roland-Cakewalk marriage. (How bout those metaphors?  ) The VS hardware gives the Sonar codebase a reliably optimized "body" in which it can live, the updating of which makes it less important to continue major development of the software itself, which IMV was nearing its practical end anyway. It exposes CW and Sonar to a new market where it can compete more effectively than either in the "pro" DAW market (I share your assessment on that), without seriously cannibalizing or competing in its familiar "prosumer" and hobbyist market (where competition is or intensifying.) Of course this all assumes that an integrated VS-like line has market appeal. Personally, I have less than no interest in such a thing and have barely looked at anything related to the VSs, but that means nothing.
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SongCraft
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 03:10:47
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ORIGINAL: UnderTow
ORIGINAL: Marah
I'm aware that many don't see the Windows version of Pro Tools and Reaper as serious competitors to Sonar, which is seen as a more "pro"-worthy DAW, but I think that's simply incorrect if not myopic.
I work most days on Pro Tools (on windows more often than on Mac) and play most evenings on Sonar. There is a very good reason that it isn't the other way round: Sonar is no competitor to Pro Tools in the pro market. It isn't even in the pro market.
As for the rest of this thread and the speculation about a totally new, cross-platform DAW from Cakewalk/Roland... hmmm... I am not entirely convinced to put it mildly. My main argument against that idea is the whole V700 range and the fact that it was released with/for Sonar. Then again... it included a Phantom synth in its initial release so Cakewalk/Roland are not thinking in anyway similar to the way I think.
Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy if they did come up with a new professional DAW (assuming it would satisfy what I expect from such a product). I just don't see it happening and would question the idea of making it cross platform. (If it was indeed cross platform and if it even exists!)
Oh and like Marah, I'm not anti-CW nor do I think they are entirely clueless. I am just at a point where I seem to expect something different from a DAW than most CW customers do.
UnderTow
I too would be happy if Cakewalk came up with a new DAW, a much leaner, efficient DAW. Remember after P5 was dropped CW did say it will return in some form in the near future. Your argument against a new flagship (cross-platform DAW) due to SONAR already tied in with the V-Studio? maybe SONAR will live on in that hardware format (SONAR tightly integrated with V-Studio) given the developers the option to refine it more for that purpose. Then the new DAW would have free reign to develop being more suitable for people who work not only in linear workflow but also wanting to work in P5 workflow based on a new 'elastic audio' engine ability to edit 'on-the-fly' including an arranger. For that to happen then YES! It would be based on a 'new' DAW and not based on the old code written for SONAR. Again! All this is just speculation based on the subject/discussion of this thread. " Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?" as we know, an upgrade is actually a 'clean' install.
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Marah
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 03:29:53
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ORIGINAL: SongCraft
maybe SONAR will live on in that hardware format (SONAR tightly integrated with V-Studio) given the developers the option to refine it more for that purpose.
Then the new DAW would have free reign to develop being more suitable for people who work not only in linear workflow but also wanting to work in P5 workflow based on a new 'elastic audio' engine ability to edit 'on-the-fly' including an arranger. For that to happen then YES! It would be based on a 'new' DAW and not based on the old code written for SONAR.
Yeppers. I think that's it. Again! All this is just speculation based on the subject/discussion of this thread. "Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?" as we know, an upgrade is actually a 'clean' install. I suspect that where they say "next paid upgrade" was just a mistake. As far as I can tell, everywhere else, they refer to the "next paid update," and the word "upgrade" is used only to refer to upgrading to the current version of Sonar 8 (or 8.3; same difference) which then qualifies you for the upDATE. That's why it seems likely that even earlier upGRADERS will also get the free upDATE, and that this offer was put together for people who had not updated. (Unless they're just so clever that they intentionally made it confusing to gauge user reaction. Ooooh those evil bakers!!! Did anyone who had already upgraded to 8 get this offer in the mail. (I asked that before, but I think it was in a different thread... hard to keep the threads straight.... like having two tracks that are kind of the same, one named 'lead gtr new' and the other named 'new lead gtr'. Oy!)
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SongCraft
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 03:47:27
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Marah, I think that's it, but I could be horribly wrong about it  When I seen that advert! And there it is again as I write this post! It says... 'Paid up date' since when after paying in full for SONAR did we also have to pay for an up date? which leads me to believe that this up date is actually a new DAW  Ah but I could be wrong! Horribly wrong! This is all just pure speculation!! But if I'm right? then I guess CW would have wished I kept my big mouth shut!!
post edited by SongCraft - 2009/07/04 04:06:48
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Freddie H
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 05:12:10
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ORIGINAL: SongCraft
Marah, I think that's it, but I could be horribly wrong about it
When I seen that advert! And there it is again as I write this post! It says... 'Paid update' since when after paying in full for SONAR did we also have to pay for an update? which leads me to believe that this update is actually a new DAW
Ah but I could be wrong! Horribly wrong! This is all just pure speculation!! But if I'm right? then I guess CW would have wished I kept my big mouth shut!!
Of course! All updates are FREE! You only pay for new versions of a program, in this example SONAR 9. The only one that I know of, that you need to pay for an simple update, that actually should be free, is MAC OSX. Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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jackn2mpu
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 06:45:43
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SongCraft
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 06:48:18
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ORIGINAL: Freddie H
Of course! All updates are FREE!
Regards
Freddie
Apparently not
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 07:15:37
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The next update to sonar 8 is going to be a paid download update as stated in the thread by Kate. It will have many newly added features with no mentions of any fixes. This is what it says and this is what it means. New versions are not updates, so its not going to be sonar 9.0. It will be sonar 8.4 or 8.5. This is fact as its been documented in the above sticky area under announcements. There is NOt going to be a new version in October as it usulaly has been for many years.
Cj
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timboe
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 07:43:50
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Cj ... you wrote:- " ..... The next update to sonar 8 is going to be a paid download update as stated in the thread by Kate. It will have many newly added features with no mentions of any fixes. This is what it says and this is what it means...... "
I just read Kate's thread and cant find any mention of " new added features " etc......
Where did you get this info ?
Tim
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jackn2mpu
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 08:37:18
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ORIGINAL: CJaysMusic
The next update to sonar 8 is going to be a paid download update as stated in the thread by Kate. It will have many newly added features with no mentions of any fixes. This is what it says and this is what it means. New versions are not updates, so its not going to be sonar 9.0. It will be sonar 8.4 or 8.5. This is fact as its been documented in the above sticky area under announcements. There is NOt going to be a new version in October as it usulaly has been for many years.
Cj
If this is true than it'd be the first paid point update at least for Sonar, right? I have to wonder what's REALLY going on up in Cakeland and if we'll ever see an explanation of what's the gospel truth. I'm thinking what's been posted so far from Ro/Cake's side has just been a rough draft and no editing or approval from all parties involved has been done. Or is it just a Procrastinator's Club April Fool's joke? Maybe we'll hear something on Monday or Tuesday. Like the esteemable philosopher Mr. Ricardo would say: they've got some 'splainin to do. BTW, I never got the email from Cake about this deal. Could it be they have various mailing lists depending on who has what product and which version of said product?
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SongCraft
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 08:48:09
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Think about it, it's a PAID up date unless of course customers qualify (FREE download) Kate said.. " next feature-rich update" : I guess that can be translated to 'New Features" or "A big whopper with extra serving of fries and cake and" as usual CW isn't about to fill us in on all the glory details until it's released.
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dbmusic
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 10:56:32
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Interesting how no one from CW has commented on this thread. They must be enjoying the controversy.
This reminds of a little game a teacher made us play in grade school where one person makes up a word and whispers it in the next person's ear, they whisper in the next person's, etc., until it goes through the entire class. The last person then says what the word is. Invariably, the final interpretation after being whispered throughout the class in nothing like the word that started.
Best regards,
DB
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keith
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 12:42:46
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ORIGINAL: dbmusic
This reminds of a little game a teacher made us play in grade school where one person makes up a word and whispers it in the next person's ear, they whisper in the next person's, etc., until it goes through the entire class. The last person then says what the word is. Invariably, the final interpretation after being whispered throughout the class in nothing like the word that started. Dude, I don't know what you're talking about... I just upgraded to SONAR 8, and now I'm waiting for my free copy of Reaper, just like the sticky says.
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keith
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 13:20:01
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ORIGINAL: SongCraft
Think about it, it's a PAID update unless of course customers qualify (FREE download) Almost every point release since I started using SONAR at v3 has included new features/ehancements along with bug fixes. If you care to read the history of such releases you can start here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/kb2004197.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005242.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005272.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005295.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005303.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20061005.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20070129.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20071226.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20081022.asp http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/Reader.aspx?ID=20090219 Some point releases include many more new features/enhancements than others. Of particular note is the 8.3.1 patch, which contained a boatload of enhancements, free of charge. Due to whatever driving factors -- bad economy, competition, shift in product planning, whatever -- it would appear that cakewalk will not be releasing a version 9 this year, but instead a "downloadable" "paid update" "later this year". Based on prior history of new features/enhancements in free maintenance releases, it would be reasonable to assume that a " paid update" would include a list of new features/enhancements that goes far beyond what they did for free with, for example, the 8.3.1. patch, not to mention a bunch of bug fixes. So why not just call it SONAR 9? Because they don't need to -- they can achieve their goals by dropping new functionality onto existing SONAR 8 installs. The cost of going through the process of producing an entirely new product version, with all new shiny boxes and printed manuals and duplicated DVDs and all new marketing and all that other overhead crap is probably 10x (or more) the cost of just dropping an EXE file on their web server. You still need to do proper QA, but that's it. Why not make use of all those shiny SONAR 8 boxes already in a store near you? Much cheaper and quicker that way. Part of what you and I pay for when we upgrade from major version to major version is all that overhead crap. Therefore it's also reasonable to assume that the "paid update" will be relatively cheap compared to a version upgrade. Could be wrong about that, who knows... ultimately it depends on what the new features/enhancements are. For all we know this update release could rival a full version release in terms of new features/enhancements... So... totally new version not required, but some payment is required to compensate cake for all the new features/enhancements.
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cmusicmaker
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 15:20:41
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Susan G
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 15:24:50
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This reminds of a little game a teacher made us play in grade school where one person makes up a word and whispers it in the next person's ear, they whisper in the next person's, etc., until it goes through the entire class. The last person then says what the word is. Invariably, the final interpretation after being whispered throughout the class in nothing like the word that started. That sounds like the game called "Telephone" when I was a kid. -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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rstollen
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 15:34:05
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ORIGINAL: dbmusic
This reminds of a little game a teacher made us play in grade school where one person makes up a word and whispers it in the next person's ear, they whisper in the next person's, etc., until it goes through the entire class. The last person then says what the word is. Invariably, the final interpretation after being whispered throughout the class in nothing like the word that started.
My first time to play that game was in Speech 101 in college.
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strikinglyhandsome1
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 16:08:44
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ORIGINAL: dbmusic
Interesting how no one from CW has commented on this thread. They must be enjoying the controversy.
This reminds of a little game a teacher made us play in grade school where one person makes up a word and whispers it in the next person's ear, they whisper in the next person's, etc., until it goes through the entire class. The last person then says what the word is. Invariably, the final interpretation after being whispered throughout the class in nothing like the word that started.
Best regards,
DB
chinese whispers in the UK
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UnderTow
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 17:34:23
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ORIGINAL: Susan G
That sounds like the game called "Telephone" when I was a kid.
ORIGINAL: strikinglyhandsome1
chinese whispers in the UK
Pointless piece of trivia: We called it "Le telephone chinoix" when I was at (French speaking) school as a kid. UnderTow
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alkie
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 17:56:27
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ORIGINAL: Marah
It's always interesting when you get an offer and, before deciding whether you want to take it or not, you first have to decide whether its language is intentionally slippery or unintentionally sloppy. It becomes even more interesting when the offer itself contains an unambiguous proofing error.
It`s quite confusing how at the top of the page it states "get the next paid ( upgrade) FREE" and below that it says " get the next paid SONAR ( update) FREE" I mean we all agree an upgrade is totally different from an update, so cakewalk needs to step up here and explain right?
Whoa.... to you ...oh...earth and sea...
for the devil sends the beast with wrath.....
because he knows the time is short.....
let him who hath understanding.....
reckon the number of the beast.....
for it is a human number...
it`s number is.....
666 So if JESUS rose from the DEAD Does that mean he`s the ORIGINAL ZOMBIE?
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Stone House Studios
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 18:09:04
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Let's not miss that the email subject line says
"Free Sonar update to the next paid version if you buy Sonar 8 today!"
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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keith
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 18:12:31
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ORIGINAL: Stone House Studios
Let's not miss that the email subject line says
"Free Sonar update to the next paid version if you buy Sonar 8 today!"
I think we all agree that the email is screwed up. Instead, read this: http://www.cakewalk.com/sonarupgrade/ and this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1760417 At worst cakewalk should send a new email retracting the first email, and reiterating what is in the announcements above.
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Marah
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 19:57:07
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If I was the conspiratorial type, I might think that the use of both 'upgrade' and 'update' was an intentional "error" intended to create enough confusion so that CW could gauge user reaction. If I was the conspiratorial type, I might even think that the top sentence, which repeats the basic offer of the headline, and contains the more obvious error where it says "and get and get," was also intentional, because it gives plausibility to a claim that the whole thing was an innocent proofreading error. If I was the conspiratorial type, I might also think that the email's subject line, which refers to the offer as the next paid 'version', was also intended to create useful uncertainty among the users. If I was the conspiratorial type, I might think lots of things. This offer was directed to those who have "been waiting to upGRADE until the 'next' big SONAR" but have been holding back. What the offer really says is: It's going to be a longer wait than you think it will be for what you think you're waiting for (let's refer to that as 'Sonar 9'), so don't hold back, upGRADE now, start using the thing, and know that you'll get the "next paid upDATE" for free. The offer is basically a non-offer: Updates are always or usually free. Where previous offers included come-ons of books and vids and discounts on end-of-cycle plugins, this offer's come-on consists of 1-part air, and 2-parts semantic confusion, one part of which was or wasn't a typo depending on whether you're the conspiratorial type. But... What the non-offer makes unavoidably obvious, finally, is that the development and release cycles for Sonar have changed and that there will not be a new full-point upgrade or "new version" of Sonar this year (I've been saying since early this year), and almost certainly not before March of next year. What the non-offer offer definitely does not say is that new upgraders to Sonar 8 will get 'Sonar 9' for free, although that implication is arguably there, aided by the upgrade/update confusion. What the offer doesn't *quite* explicitly say is that this next upDATE will be a paid one, but there's no other way to reasonably interpret it. Pre-July upgraders to Sonar 8 will probably pay a "nominal" fee for whatever is in the update that makes it more than just a zero-point hotfix kind of thing. But whatever IS in the hotfix category would still be available to them for free (they'd have a mutiny on their hands if they charged for that.) Is this going to be the last offer they make before it expires in March? Probably not, but this will be the base offer on which any future offers are built. This offer will likely be extended and enhanced if necessary to bridge between Sonar 8 and whatever follows it. ORIGINAL: keith
So why not just call it SONAR 9?
They could. But that would imply more than they want to deliver at this time while still not delivering nothing. I'm convinced more than ever that lurking invisibly (but increasingly less so!) behind all of this is an entirely new, and very necessary, post-Sonar product line, and that any awkwardness or confusion or head-scratch-inducing stuff we see (the latest offer, scrapping P5, the VS line, even typos) is a reflection of that tricky transition. It's really interesting. If you don't take it too seriously, it can also be a lot of fun.
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Sickvision 
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 20:06:40
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i sit home and wait ,wish i could just take the train to boston downtown crossing where cakewalk office is and get my sonar cd. id probably bet arested for stalking cakewalk. but im so bumd i didn wait to buy sonar 8 the next upgrade is 200 buck.
id just take a half of deal and be happy
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alkie
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 20:12:00
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Funny thing is it says next paid update but does not include what someone would get if they decided against a paid update or udate at all.
Two weeks back, i went to my favourite Computer store called TechnoTrade, they have always had the best deals on everything going,
i walked in to my surprise everything in the store was 50% up to 90% off, unbelievably i didn`t really need anything, so i asked why was
such a sale on, and was told they were renovating, went back last week and there was a notice of rent due on the door, yup they had
a great cash grab sale and did a runner, could things be that bad for Cakewalk? i wonder?
Whoa.... to you ...oh...earth and sea...
for the devil sends the beast with wrath.....
because he knows the time is short.....
let him who hath understanding.....
reckon the number of the beast.....
for it is a human number...
it`s number is.....
666 So if JESUS rose from the DEAD Does that mean he`s the ORIGINAL ZOMBIE?
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SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 20:11:57
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Has anyone considered that the Next Update might be free anyway, and for that matter, the one after that? The offer specifically mentions (about the only thing it is specific about) the next PAID Update, not the NEXT Update - for all we're being told that might be after SONAR 9, SONAR 10 or whatever has been released. This is all just so vague, has anyone actually bought into this offer yet - if so, did you get any more information than the rest of us? @ Marah - I had a few similar conspiratorial theories of my own: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1762016 Steve
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ducatibruce2
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/04 21:06:54
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I wonder if the dates in the "eligibility" clause from the SonarUpdate page http://www.cakewalk.com/sonarupgrade/ Purchases or upgrades must be made on or after July 1st, 2009 through March 1 st, 2010. If you purchase SONAR 8 Studio, you will be eligible to receive the next paid update to SONAR Studio. If you purchase SONAR 8 Producer, you will be eligible to receive the next paid update to SONAR Producer (Ignoring the obvious no version number for Producer typo) might be interpreted as Cake wanting to extend the shelf life of Sonar 8 stocks at retail outlets (so that stock isnt devalued significantly by a new version release). Which would mean all systems normal for a late September version upgrade - just an alternative take on the confusing & conflicting versions of the promo.
S8.5.3PE & X1d P Exp & X2P, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3 With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle, Komplete8
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kine321
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/05 01:34:51
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Ooops... I think I'm loss--- How did I find my way into the mighty Sonar forum  Oh well, may as well leave a pointless comment.  If you really study the wording of the promo--- it's specifically aimed at those who haven't upgraded to S8. Obviously, everyone that owns a CW product is registered. CW-- knows whether or not users have upgraded to other products. My guess is that they haven't seen the sort of numbers they would like to see for Sonar8. They also know a lot of folks put-off upgrading because they're waiting for x-y amount of updates to be made before buying or they're waiting for the next version. CW, doesn't make mention of current users of Sonar8. I surmise they know current users would raise hell about being excluded for a free update. I think you guys are spinning your wheels for nothing trying to figure it out. Why would somebody that buys S8 now get something current customers won't get when the update is released? They're simply trying to entice users to S8 with a cheap smoke screen. If they were talking about S9... they would say so! That would certainly be a far greater motivator to upgrade wouldn't it? One thing to ponder... [[[given the fact the CW has changed the UI for all their other DAWS]]] is whether they have plans to do the same for Sonar9. Will it also sport the SHS7 UI??? They've done it for MC5 & GTP4. They're all the same engine that's being embarrassingly offered as different products when the only real difference is the product name. S9 may have far more features than the SHS7 UI offers. But it could be where S9 is headed. They may have used the lesser products as a tester for user reaction before doing it to S9. Think about it!
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kaylen
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/05 09:08:09
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I havent been very active here lately and I am one of those that was waiting for 9.but its my birthday this week and the e-mail got my attention.b ut i was confused as what is being offered and came here to see what you'all are thinking.
Question...Is this typical for cake to be so silent? there atempt at getting me to jump is sorta scareing me away
Music is as useless and unimportant as life itself Kaylen, Win 7 Home pr, 6GB DDR3, intel2120 X2P, Battery 4, BFD2, BFD Eco, EZdrmr Finale 2012
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alkie
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RE: Eligibility for free upgrade to next version?
2009/07/05 09:42:01
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Would anybody like some cake? Just send me $50 and i`ll send you some cake PLUS to anyone who buys cake right now..... i will give a FREE slice of my next cake!!!!!!!!
Whoa.... to you ...oh...earth and sea...
for the devil sends the beast with wrath.....
because he knows the time is short.....
let him who hath understanding.....
reckon the number of the beast.....
for it is a human number...
it`s number is.....
666 So if JESUS rose from the DEAD Does that mean he`s the ORIGINAL ZOMBIE?
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