Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at once?

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icontakt
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2014/05/28 08:43:08 (permalink)

Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at once?

When I record audio, I set a punch region and prepare several empty take lanes in the track and record to each lane in Overwrite mode (I'm not a fan of Comping mode). I've been recording audio heavily this way for the last several weeks and encountered an issue that already existed in Sonar 2 (which I used for many years before upgrading to X1). I must say I'm really sad to see this still present in Sonar and it's as bad as another longstanding issue I posted recently in which the right edge of a MIDI clip gets truncated when the clip is moved and the last event in the clip disappears if it's a controller event.
 
In the screenshot below, you can see there are tiny, spine-like projections on the right edge of most of the clips (I changed the Clips pane background color to white so that you can identify the projections easily). Do you know what they are? They are residues from previous, or overwritten, clips. When you repeatedly record in the same region (with or without loop enabled), you'll start seeing these residues at some point.
 

 
 
As shown in the next screenshot, I can isolate the clips from the residues by changing the clip length or moving the clips to left, then I can lasso-select the residues and delete them.
 

 
 
But changing the length of many audio clips and lasso-selecting all clip residues isn't something I want to do for the rest of my life. Is there an easy and fast way to delete all residues in a project at once? If you're someone who's been frequently recording audio in Sonar, how do you cope with this issue? Do you use the above method or just bounce the clip and the residue? Maybe you've never had this issue?
post edited by Jlien X - 2014/05/28 08:52:54

Tak T.
 
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    tecknot
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/28 12:45:00 (permalink)
    That may just be a case of either a split, overlap (maybe a duplicate copy/ies of clips),or slip editing resulting in clips hidden behind (or underneath) that which was just deleted.  I guess, for the sake of accuracy, zooming in to the edges (or the beginning) of the clip(s) would reveal any "hidden" clips you may wish delete as well. 
     
    I wonder if expanding take lanes would reveal overlapped clips. 
     
    Anyhow, that has been my experience.
     
    Kind regards,
     
    tecknot
    #2
    brundlefly
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/28 14:43:15 (permalink)
    Hey Tak, I've never seen that, and can't reproduce it deliberately.  If you bounce the "residue" does it actually create a clip and/or is it audible? Or is it maybe just a video artifact?
     
    If there's actually audio there, I'm wondering if might be due to some issue with sample position reported by your audio interface or some unhappy confluence of buffer size, tempo, sample rate and punch range. Do you ever select and delete clips manually when recording like that, or do you always let Overwrite take care of it?
     

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    #3
    Splat
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/28 19:20:26 (permalink)
    I could not reproduce with X3E Pro... my steps

    1) Create new project.
    2) Insert audio track and arm track. Get an input source prepared (I just recorded a youtube video).
    3) Enable loop for four bars
    4) Right click record button and place in overwrite mode.
    5) Press record. Repeat for 8 loops. Then press stop.
    6) Repeat step (5) a few times.
    7) Expand takelanes
     
    EXPECTED
    All fine
     
    Cheers...

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    #4
    Anderton
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/28 20:17:42 (permalink)
    Make sure you're consistent in the use of Snap to Audio Zero Crossings. I leave that option off because it has tripped me up more than once when creating loop libraries where cuts have to be exactly on the beat. When I went back to correct the cut...instant clip sliver.

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    #5
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 06:47:47 (permalink)
    Some good sounding thoughts above. I'm wondering: Is that really audio, or just "visual waste".

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    icontakt
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 08:23:11 (permalink)
    Thanks all for the replies. I'm going to explain and show you that this IS a Sonar issue.
     
    First, as I said, I record directly to lanes, and these clip residues appear in both the parent track and the lanes (see the screenshots).
     
     

    This screenshot is from another project that shows the same issue, and I'm going to drag the left edges of the two residues.
     
     

    Look! The top of the three lanes with takes now reveals two previous clips (because I dragged the edge twice), and the middle lane also shows a previous take (I have no idea what that black lines at the bottom of the clips are). And, yes, the "Record 34" clip is audible ("Record 41" and "Record 53" don't show waveforms even when I drag further for some unknown reason and are thus not audible).
     
     
    There are a few things I should mention (should have mentioned in the OP...sorry):
     
    1. I rarely edit clips while I record (never split, sometimes drag the clip edges to make room for next takes to record), so it's not likely an operational error.
     
    2. The issue isn't easily reproducible. You need to be either a perfectionist or a poor singer/performer (or both) to make this happen (I hope I'm not the latter ). As soon as I make a mistake or feel uncomfortable about what I just played, I hit the spacebar or R to stop recording--whether it's in the middle of the punch region or after the punch end point--and then immediately hit R (again) to re-record the take. I do this quite a lot and real fast. Also, sometimes I mistakenly hit Ctrl+Z to undo although I'm recording in overwrite mode and it's not necessary at all to undo. I don't know when exactly during this operation it happens (because I'm too focused on recording), but at one point these projections appear at the right edge of the clip.
     
    3. When I was using Sonar 2, I was on a different system (different PC, different OS, different audio interface, etc.), but the issue is EXACTLY the same.
     
     
    What do you think? No one else has ever seen this? I'm really surprised.
    I hope I'll manage to reproduce it and report to CW.
     
    Thanks

    Tak T.
     
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    #7
    Grem
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 09:07:54 (permalink)
    Never seen this happen.
     
    Will give it a try and see what I come up with.
     
    I mostly use the new comp mode now.
     
    I don't think I have ever used overwrite feature. Just a hold over from my days using tape. I hated that one of my previous attempts was better than what I just did (and I had to erase the previous take to record the new take).
     
    When I started using CW I was thrilled I could keep at least a few takes and see which ones I would keep! So I kept everything. Till disk space came in to play. Then I would do three or four takes , keep the best one, do three or four more, on and on till I got what I wanted.
     
     

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    js516
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 09:15:35 (permalink)
    Jlien X
    I hit the spacebar or R to stop recording--whether it's in the middle of the punch region or after the punch end point--and then immediately hit R (again) to re-record the take.



    I think this may be part of the problem if you are recording in a loop. If you stop recording "at" the end point, you may be a few samples too early relative to the end point If you resume recording, it begins from where you stopped it and records a few samples before looping back to the start point. You end up with a clip a few samples long at the end of the prior take.
     

    Joe Sera
     
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    icontakt
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 10:20:31 (permalink)
    js516
    Jlien X
    I hit the spacebar or R to stop recording--whether it's in the middle of the punch region or after the punch end point--and then immediately hit R (again) to re-record the take.



    I think this may be part of the problem if you are recording in a loop. If you stop recording "at" the end point, you may be a few samples too early relative to the end point If you resume recording, it begins from where you stopped it and records a few samples before looping back to the start point. You end up with a clip a few samples long at the end of the prior take.


     
    I forgot to mention that I have "On Stop, Rewind to Now Marker" enabled all the time. So, hitting spacebar automatically takes me back to where I started recording.

    Tak T.
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/29 12:08:53 (permalink)
    Before you slip-edit the edges of the residual clips, what are their start and end times relative to the loop/punch end point, and how long are they in samples?
     
    I just did over a hundred takes of a one-bar auto-punch with Overwrite and On Stop Rewind to Now enabled, recording to take lane two of three created in advance. I randomly stopped and restarted takes everywhere from during count-in to after the punch range and did not generate any residual clips. I did another 50+ using a fractional tempo with an un-snapped Auto-punch range that was a few ticks longer than a measure, and still haven't seen any weirdness.
     
    Assuming it's not totally random, what I'm wondering what you might have been done differently to stop recording the takes that left residual clips or to start the next take that should have overwritten them.
     
    The only scenario I can think of is that if you shortened the Auto-punch range somehow between takes, the next recording would not overwrite the end of the previous one. But even when I do that deliberately, shortening the punch range by one tick, the residual clip from the previous take doesn't look like what your screen shots show; mine has smooth edges at all zoom levels at which it's visible.

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    #11
    icontakt
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/05/30 09:47:52 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply and the attempts, Dave. Below is the info on the punch region and the residual clips (before slip-editing):
     
    Punch Region
    Start:17:01:000
    End: 32:02:240
     
    Residual Clips
    Start: 32:02:240
    Length: 0
     
    I rarely shorten or lengthen the punch region between takes, and even if I do I don't disable global snap (primary="Measure," secondary="1/16").
     
    I'll try to find steps to reproduce the issue tomorrow.

    Tak T.
     
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    #12
    Splat
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/06/23 21:49:34 (permalink)
    I had this flagged, wondered if you got anywhere with this... Cheers Alex.

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    icontakt
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    Re: Encountered another longstanding issue... Any way to delete these clip residues at onc 2014/06/23 22:13:02 (permalink)
    Just the day before yesterday I was recording vocal tracks with a singer and this issue happened quite a lot (I saw it happen in real-time). I think I've noticed something then. I'll investigate into it soon.

    Tak T.
     
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