End of song fade out

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rodger
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2011/02/28 16:25:22 (permalink)

End of song fade out

I searched through several forums and tech support pages, but didn't find an answer.  Everything was for GT 2 or 3 and doesn't seem to apply to GT4.
 
I have a V-Studio 20 with Guitar Tracks 4.  I want to fade the end of a song in a coordinated way - all tracks simultaneously.  Is there a convenient way to do this?
 
Thanks
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    The Rebel
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/03 20:11:26 (permalink)
    Rodger,
    I have the V Studio 20 also.
    The only way I have been able to do fade outs is by the individual track.
    I seldom have more than 7 or 8 tracks so it's not too bad to do each separately.
    I drop a marker where I want to start the fade out so I have a reference point for the fade out.
    I've tried to find a way to do multiple tracks and it doesn't look like there is one.


    #2
    rodger
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/03 20:52:25 (permalink)
    Thanks for replying Rebel.  I was afraid that might be the only way.  A couple of the songs I want to fade out with the V20/GT are over 15 tracks.  I don't like my chances of nailing them with the same timing.  Thanks again!
     
    UPDATE:  I think I see what you mean.  I placed a marker where I want the fade to begin.  Instead of using real time automation, I used the end of clip method.  Moused over the track at the top until the triangle appeared and left mouse dragged back to the point I want the fade to begin.  Then, go back to the end of clip and mouse over the bottom of the clip until the crop box appears and drag back to the point where I want the clip to become completely faded.  Do this to every track until the fades all line up.  Right mouse click in the track at the point where the fade begins and another triangle appears and select the type of fade (linear, slow or fast).
     
    I still think an overall automated master fade of all tracks should be built into the software.
    post edited by rodger - 2011/03/03 22:56:07
    #3
    Norrie
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/04 14:37:18 (permalink)
    rodger


    I searched through several forums and tech support pages, but didn't find an answer.  Everything was for GT 2 or 3 and doesn't seem to apply to GT4.
     
    I have a V-Studio 20 with Guitar Tracks 4.  I want to fade the end of a song in a coordinated way - all tracks simultaneously.  Is there a convenient way to do this?
     
    Thanks


    Bounce it all to one track then just use that master track in the session and add a volume envelope to the track add a nod at the point you want it to fade and then one at the point you want it to be finished then make the type of fade you want fast linear slow etc or manualy put one in :)

    Apart from doing that on each audio track and haveing it all line up or bounceing the track and re opening it in a new session I think the top part I said is your best option :)

    Hope that helps

    Norrie

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    #4
    rodger
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/04 15:10:42 (permalink)
    Thanks Norrie!  I'll give that a try also.  Appreciate it!
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/04 15:53:22 (permalink)
     
    Rodger, Dan - hi there guys.
     
    As far as I can see, there appears to be no way to automate the 'master' bus in GT4, or to bounce down to a single track, but there are two workarounds to your problem which are both quicker and less fiddly than fading each track individually.
     
    The first method will work well if your project only has audio tracks, the second works with a project with both audio and MIDI, it also allows much more control over how your song fades out.
     
    METHOD 1 - Fade out in the same project
     
    For this method to work properly, all your tracks should end at the same point. When you record, don't forget to leave each track running until after the point where you want the final fade out to finish - set a marker so you know to carry on playing until you've passed it.

    I've set up this project to show what I mean - this screenshot shows the end of a song that contains five audio tracks. As you can see, I've already placed a marker at the start of measure 62 to give me a rough idea of when the fade will start, and I've also inserted another marker at the beginning of measure 70 where I want the fade to finish.

    As you can see, every track is recorded past the end of the song; this is important as you want all tracks to finish at zero level/volume at the same time (otherwise some of your tracks will still be audible while others have already been silenced).



    It doesn't matter if all the tracks don't finish at the same time - make sure Snap To Grid is turned on and set to 'Whole' or 'Measure'.

    Now place the Now Time Marker at the point you wish the song to end - in my example, this will be at the second marker (at the start of measure 70).

    Now you need to split each track at this point - to do it quickly, use the keyboard shortcut Ctrl+A to select every track. To show they've been selected, all the tracks will change colour:




    Now you need to use the keyboard shortcut S (just the letter 'S') - this will split all the tracks together.

    You now want to delete off all the parts of each track that you've split off at the end. You can right click in each of these and use Edit>Delete or the Delete button on you keyboard. However, a much quicker way is to hold the left mouse button down and drag out an envelope to enclose all the clips:




    Now press Delete on your keyboard and all the extra clips will disappear:




    Now use Ctr+A to select all your tracks again.

    Hover the mouse cursor over the top right hand corner of any of the tracks until it turns into the Fade Icon.

    It looks a little like this 

    Holding down the left mouse button, simply drag away to the left and you'll create an identical fade envelope for all the tracks at the same time:


     
      
     
    METHOD 2 - Fade out in a different project 
     
    Method 2 requires you to export your mixed song, and works if you have MIDI in the project – note that using this method, you don’t need to trim all your tracks to the same finishing time.
     
    To do this, use Ctr+A to select everything in your project and then go to File > Export Audio - on the screen that appears, navigate to a destination folder, name your project, and make certain you have Entire Mix - CD Quality selected as the Export Preset:




    Now open a new project in GT4 and click on an Audio Track (Track 1 is fine) to select it. Now select File > Import > Audio and navigate to your mixed-down song. Click on the song to select it and then hit Open to import it into the new project.

    To apply a simple linear fade to your whole song, simply use the same method as above and drag the Fade Icon in the top right corner.


    You can, however, use this single track method to create more sophisticated fade-outs.

    To do this, first you need to create what’s called a Volume Envelope – to do this, right click on the track and select Envelope > Create Track Envelope > Volume


     
     
    The Volume Envelope will appear as a coloured horizontal line in the centre of your track:




    By default, the level of the envelope is set to minus 7.1 decibels (-7.1dB) – you’ll need to left click on the envelope and drag it up until the level reaches 0dB (this means the original volume of your song is unchanged):




    Now you need to right click in the track at the point you want the fade to start – from the options available, select Add Node




    The node appears as a ‘diamond’ icon on the envelope:




    To create the fade, left click on the (automatically created) node at the very end of the envelope (at the right hand edge of the track) and drag it down until it displays INF (minus infinity). As you can see from this screenshot, a linear fade out is created (note you can slide either node horizontally to change the start and end points of the fade):




    To quickly create a couple of different fade out characteristics, right click on the fade envelope and choose either Fast Curve or Slow Curve - here’s the Fast Curve:




    To exactly control the fade out, you can add more nodes anywhere along the envelope and drag them up to increase or lower the relative volume:





    Finally (nearly there guys!) – using this single track import method, you can use your VS-20 to manually create a fade out envelope in real time.

    To do this, go to the Console View and arm the track to record (make sure you’ve got nothing connected to the track’s input). Now click on the W button to enable Automation Write: 

     


    Assuming the imported song is on Track 1, first make certain the fader on Track 1 on your VS-20 is set at 0dB as your starting position. Now switch back to the Track View and hit Record. You can now use the fader on your VS-20 to create a volume envelope in real time as the track plays.

    Note that the nodes that the Automation Write process inserts in your track are fully editable as in the method above.
     
     
    Incidentally, both of these methods work equally well for fade-ins.
     
    Anyway, hope that helps guys – it actually looks a lot more complicated than it really is. Work through each method to see if they work for you – let me know if there’s anything else that needs explaining.
     
     
    Steve
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2011/03/04 18:56:23

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    #6
    The Rebel
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/05 20:15:52 (permalink)
    Wow!
    Steve, I don't think I've ever seen anyone answer a question in this forum so completely!
    Thanks for showing the way.
    I actually copied and saved your answer for my studio reference.
    Thanks!
    #7
    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/05 21:09:28 (permalink)
    The Rebel


    Wow!
    Steve, I don't think I've ever seen anyone answer a question in this forum so completely!
    Thanks for showing the way.
    I actually copied and saved your answer for my studio reference.
    Thanks!

     
    No problem Dan.
     
    The problem with the version of GT4 that comes bundled with the VS-20 is that it's very limiting - it's more of a 'lite' version of the full GT'Pro'4 software.
     
    In GTPro4, and most other versions of Cakewalk software the fade would be so simple to accomplish you'd be doing it your sleep after just a few moments learning it.
     
    If you are really interested in getting a lot more control over your recording and mixing I'd heartily recommend taking a look at some of Cakewalk's more sophisticated software.
     
    If I can assist in pointing you in the right direction I'd be happy to help.
     
     

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    rodger
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/07 14:05:28 (permalink)
    Thanks Steve!  I appreciate you taking so much time to answer my question.

    I did the same thing Rebel did.... copied your reply and added it to my recording notebook.

    Thanks again!
    #9
    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/03/08 17:44:06 (permalink)
    rodger


    Thanks Steve!  I appreciate you taking so much time to answer my question.

    I did the same thing Rebel did.... copied your reply and added it to my recording notebook.

    Thanks again!

     
    Glad to help Rodger
     
     

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    chuckebaby
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/04/09 07:33:45 (permalink)
    steve your unbelievable..the explaination you give on this thread is nothing short of excellent my friend..your a pro in my book.how can one add to this...lol...youve set the bar.

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/04/09 15:56:43 (permalink)
    chuckebaby


    steve your unbelievable..the explaination you give on this thread is nothing short of excellent my friend..your a pro in my book.how can one add to this...lol...youve set the bar.

     

     
    Charlie, I was lucky when I started to have guys like Bob (RobertB) who did this sort of thing for me. I'm just carrying on the tradition I guess.
     
    It's why I get so annoyed when people reply to beginners so rudely, or tell them to RTFM; there's no need for that attitude in such a great forum.
     
     

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    #12
    Silverbullet
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/04/28 10:32:15 (permalink)
    Hi everyone,
    since my audiotracks are often put together by many small bits, and since I haven't found a way to merge audio-clips in guitar tracks (is that possible?) I actually export my project as a wave-file then import it back into a new project where I do finalizing, including the fading using the technique as suggested in method 1 by mr. Strummer. This seems to be the only way to get around the problem if you cannot make an even cut througt multiple tracks of audio clips of varied length.
    Thanks to all for great input.
    Thomas, DK
    #13
    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/04/28 14:57:30 (permalink)
     
    Hi there Thomas, welcome to the forum.
     
    As far as I can tell, in the version of Guitar Tracks 4 that ships with the VS-20, it's not possible to merge (it's also called 'Bounce') individual clips, so exporting your mixed down project and then importing back as a single track seems the only way to do what you want.
     
    If you have the full version of Guitar Tracks Pro 4, you just need to select all the clips in a track (hold down the Control key and then Click on each clip) and then either select Edit>Bounce to Clip/s from the Menu Bar, or right click in one of the selected clips and choose the same option from the drop-down list.
     
    Hope that helps
     
     
    Steve
     
     

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    #14
    Silverbullet
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    Re:End of song fade out 2011/04/29 01:29:47 (permalink)
    Hi Steve
    Thank you for responding to my request about merging.
    Guitar tracks is my first experience with DAW's and its been a brilliant way to get going. I am reluctant to upgrade to guitar pro in fear of technical complications taking my focus from the creative process of making music - my question being: Is it as flawless working with guitar pro as it is with guitar tracks 4/VS-20?
    Thanks again for taking the time to enter your skills into public space. Thomas, Denmark
    (PS. I have created a new thread asking the upgrade question)
    post edited by Silverbullet - 2011/04/30 05:40:51
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