brconflict
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Entire Mix - Not exactly?
"If you don’t select anything, everything is selected" is written into the manual for exporting the Entire Mix of a project. That's one of the most frustrating things I've run into with Sonar.
Is it too much to ask that Cakewalk add "As Selected" to the export options vs. using Entire Mix to export only selected clips(s)/track(s)? It's totally not intuitive, as is.
See, the problem is, that almost everyone selects a track or clip, etc. every time they edit. When this happens, the user must do Ctrl+Shift+A to deliberately unselect the clip(s) and track(s) to export the Entire Mix or only the selected clip(s)/track(s) are unexpectedly exported. That's an extra step, which is not intuitive to the initiated new users, who need a great first impression. They don't know to do this without reading that fine print in the manual.
I've requested this some time ago, and it's still a thing, so I do want to try a different venue in the hopes this gets attention.
Thanks in advance!!
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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dlion16
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 10:36:21
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I ctrl-A the track view before export...
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brconflict
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 10:54:49
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dlion16
I ctrl-A the track view before export...
Yeah, I mentioned the extra step above, although slightly opposite in nature. It's the extra step newbies won't know or intuitively think needs to be done, and a true annoyance for someone like me, who still doesn't understand the point of that relatively hidden feature superseding the obvious nature of what Entire Mix means.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 11:14:47
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It's powerful but definitely confusing. I don't think I've ever used the selection to define exports (except for song length) because it's too easy to mess up. I select all and use mute/solo instead.
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rcklln
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 13:13:08
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I tap numpad 5 (num lock off) - another shortcut to select none - before I select anything to delete, export, etc. If anything is selected prior to a select all, only a portion will end up getting selected.
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jpetersen
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 16:53:20
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They put in the Add Track button but really, this dialog is in way more need of a cleanup.
Every time I export I'm just not sure if what I got is what I wanted.
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John
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 17:03:07
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The best way to export a mix is making sure all tracks eventually route through the Master buss and select it when you export. Obviously sub buses need to route to the master buss too. In a sense this a "what you hear" sort of export.
A good way to import audio is drag it from the Browser into the header area in an empty spot.
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bitflipper
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 17:13:54
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"Select none to select all" is actually part of the Windows standard. You don't explicitly select the text in a Word document, for example, to print it or to change the font. Unless, of course, you want to print/affect only a portion of it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 17:23:19
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I probably have an older version of Word but if I don't select anything, nothing changes when I change the font. I think it would be nice if there were an option in the export dialog to use "follow selection" or "ignore selection". I could opt for the latter and never have to worry again.
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brconflict
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 19:25:18
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My point is this: What does the phrase Entire Mix mean to you? And when you want a mix-down, what would you typically expect that to do for you?
Not discounting the statement bitflipper appropriately made and others agree, this is some seriously low-hanging fruit to address. Would anyone disagree that moving the "Select" export function to As Selected and leave Entire Mix for the entire mix only is an ok idea? How do other DAW's do this?
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David
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 19:29:18
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I agree, Brian , make it simple!
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35mm
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/14 20:41:57
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I agree. I got caught out by this several times, but then I started just selecting Master Bus as the export target and that works just fine providing everything you want to export is routed to the master bus.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/15 02:54:35
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I agree too. I don't know of any other DAW that defines your export mix by the tracks or even clips that you have selected, though pretty much all of them let you do a timeline selection. It could be argued that this is what sets Sonar apart and makes it powerful but most of the time it makes things more difficult, not easier, at least for me.
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soens
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/15 06:51:26
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Not sure I get what this is all about, but I usually ctrl+A to select all for Export unless I KNOW nothing is focused. If there's any tracks I don't want in the mix they are Muted beforehand. Just a habit from using older versions of Sonar where selecting nothing would end up exporting a blank wave file. 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/15 08:00:57
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I do the same but you have to admit those extra steps aren't very intuitive.
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sharke
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/15 08:31:03
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I always use the "what you hear" preset in the export dialog. Does exactly what it says on the tin, except it doesn't select 64-bit for you.
I think one of my biggest frustrations is when I export a synth track and end up with an empty wav file because I didn't select the MIDI with the audio track. I mean really, what's all that about? I'm not exporting the MIDI am I?
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Afrodrum
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/23 16:56:00
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I also find export "entire mix" confusing and always export hardware outputs.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/24 04:27:50
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I'm firmly in the camp of Select None and export through Main Outs.
It never fails.
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brconflict
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/24 12:37:01
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I'm a fan of adding a "What you hear", which exports exactly the same thing you'd hear if you clicked Play on the Transport. It really can't be less confusing that way. I would just prefer CW to change Entire Mix from what it apparently means to what most of us would infer, or to add a What You Hear, option.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/02/24 13:15:25
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+1
Would be nice if there was also a timeline adjuster prefilled with the selection in the export dialog.
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NotASpeckOfCereal
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 00:34:45
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Old thread, but I have to add my +1 to "Entire Mix" not actually meaning "Entire Mix". I see the other options people mention and eventually found them, but it was a frustrating road that killed creativity until the next day.
Also, when the documentation for the Export Audio dialog says "If you select any data in your project, only that data is included when you choose to export audio", it would be helpful to point out that there's a Select, None item in the Edit menu. Because simply making sure that you don't have a track selected isn't enough. Try this: select one audio track, then click it again to de-select it, then try the File, Export, Audio menu item -- you'll get an error dialog saying there's no audio in the select track, which is also not intuitive.
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Anderton
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 05:21:01
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Sanderxpander
It's powerful but definitely confusing. I don't think I've ever used the selection to define exports (except for song length)... It's an essential function if you export sections of a song as loops. I depend on the many options Export offers, but the solution to make it easier might be as simple as having an "Advanced" button to expose the existing menu. Otherwise you'd see only a couple options presented to the user who just wants to export what they hear...in fact maybe just expose the "What you hear" preset and the essentials like mono, stereo, file format, and sample rate. sharke
I always use the "what you hear" preset in the export dialog. Does exactly what it says on the tin, except it doesn't select 64-bit for you.
I think one of my biggest frustrations is when I export a synth track and end up with an empty wav file because I didn't select the MIDI with the audio track. I mean really, what's all that about? I'm not exporting the MIDI am I?
No, but there's no audio to export if there's no MIDI telling the synth what audio to play. The reason why you have to select the MIDI is a situation where, for example, you have several MIDI tracks feeding the same instrument...which MIDI tracks do you select? Most likely all of them, but not always. This is one reason why I like to do synth recording, and as soon as the synth is audio, I mute the MIDI track.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 09:18:05
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You could export loops just fine use timeline selection and track solo. In fact I often still use this because I find it a lot more reliable than selecting a bunch of clips.
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brconflict
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 13:55:29
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Anderton
I depend on the many options Export offers, but the solution to make it easier might be as simple as having an "Advanced" button to expose the existing menu. Otherwise you'd see only a couple options presented to the user who just wants to export what they hear...in fact maybe just expose the "What you hear" preset and the essentials like mono, stereo, file format, and sample rate.
I'd support this idea. If the Sonar Analytics can be tapped to see the most frequent Export types, that may help.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 14:01:09
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NotASpeckOfCereal
Try this: select one audio track, then click it again to de-select it, then try the File, Export, Audio menu item -- you'll get an error dialog saying there's no audio in the select track, which is also not intuitive.
This normal work flow. you select the tracks you want to export. If you CNTRL+A (select all tracks) and want to de-select one track, Simply hold CNTRL and click that one track to de-select it.
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Anderton
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 15:18:46
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Sanderxpander
You could export loops just fine use timeline selection and track solo. In fact I often still use this because I find it a lot more reliable than selecting a bunch of clips.
Maybe I misunderstood your original point, that's what I do to export loops.
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bapu
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 15:23:09
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Serious answer here (I know, right?). If they change it I will have to undo (pun intended) years of embedded workflow.
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Keni
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/04/30 18:22:25
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Hmmm...
I simply click in a blank area and get export all I hear.
The only occasional issue is making empty tail info which I trim off during mastering.
Am I missing something?
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Joe_A
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/05/01 00:11:06
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IMHO could this be a discussion about just one more way to skin the cat, and that different folks have different opinions, all equally OK to have their own preference?
I've used ctl+A for years myself without a second thought. Thinking it's good, I don't have to select everything in this large project. Have done loops, like Anderton said. That's a standard action.
😞 I'd have to be inconvenienced to learn a different way with more mouse clicks.
😃Seriously, if an improvement I'm all for it.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Entire Mix - Not exactly?
2017/05/01 06:01:00
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Anderton
Sanderxpander
You could export loops just fine use timeline selection and track solo. In fact I often still use this because I find it a lot more reliable than selecting a bunch of clips.
Maybe I misunderstood your original point, that's what I do to export loops.
My point was that using clip/track selection as a source for what's exported can be powerful but also confusing (and unreliable due to simple human error, it's often too finicky). If you do the same thing I do - using select all and track solo instead of clip selection to determine what's exported that is a point in favor of redesigning (or removing?) this feature.
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