Erratic behavior with the cc11 expression when recording audio track

I created a midi track with a C11 expression envelope, sounding nice on my Korg Pa2X.  But when I recorded the track to  a audio track, the expression sounds erratic.  First the fade in volume increase is missing, then some nodes are not responding to the changes in volume once audio track starts recording.  But when playback from the midi track, everything normal again.   It is just recording it to audio then the midi C11 expression not behaving correctly.  I have checked the enable automation and don't identify any mistake there.

Can someone pls help?

Thanx.
james


Korg Pa2X Cakewalk audio capture UA25 EX Window 7 64bit 4G E8200 duo core   Sonar X1

I'm a little confused by the query. Did you bounce the midi and envelope down to an audio track and the envelope didn't work right? Is than what you mean by saying you recorded the track to audio? Are you using cc11 for volume instead of cc7?

And rbowser, how to bounce midi track in real time?  Thx.

Sorry, James - I was talking about bouncing a soft synth's track - I didn't notice you're using a hardware synth.  


Randy B.

I wonder if it might be receiving signals from the Korg as well as the Midi track.  If the Korg is still set as the input to the midi track then it could be picking up the pedal/controller signal from it as well as reading the CC envelope and getting peculiar effects.  Try deleting the Korg as the input on the Midi track.  Just have the ouput going to the Korg.
(I am assuming you are just trying to record the audio from an edited midi track and not trying to record/play midi simultaneously)

stonehedge


Hi Jameslo
If you are using an external hardware synth, are both midi in and out connected to the hardware synth? If so it could be midi loop through. Try disconnecting the midi out of the synth while recording to audio if it is connected.  I'm still curios why you are using cc11 expression instead of cc7 volume, if volume enveloping is your goal. Does you hardware synth not respond or transmit midi cc7

Interjecting some info:  CC7 is intended for the basic potential volume of a synth.  CC11 is intended for the dynamic volume changes during a performance.  They both produce similar and sometimes identical results - it depends on the synth.  Often, CC11 is controlling timbre changes along with volume, producing a more nuanced/natural sounding instrument i.e. brighter sound at louder volumes.  But CC7 is equivalent to raising and lowering a volume slider.  That's why I think the best practice is to always use CC11 for dynamic volume change.


Meanwhile - it's a good theory that MIDI data's still coming in from the keyboard while the recording is being made, causing a confusion of CC11 data.


Randy B.

jameslo


Hi guys,

I now know where is the problem.  If I set up metronome to audio instead of midi, the cc11 envelope will have erratic behavior - the CC11 is not in sync with the nodes progression.  Using midi metronome will have no such problem!  Thanks for help.

Yes, I agree using CC11 seems to be better than CC7.  My reason is that if I have several midi tracks I can use CC11 to adjust the volume changes WITHIN the track and the volume sliders on each track to adjust the overall balance.

Hello again, James  - Very interesting.  Hmmm.  I don't think you've actually solved the problem, at least I don't see how that could have solved it.  All I ever use is the audio metronome, since it's always available regardless of having a MIDI source in the project - and I've never had this issue where CC11 is somehow not in sync.--- I don't get it.

Your second paragraph - That's it exactly.  Use CC11 to play the instrument - and there can be quite a bit of CC11 data since real-world instruments never stay at absolutely the same volume for more than a second.  So the more CC11 volume control you use, the more organic sounding your results will be.  CC7 is for the overall balance of tracks.

I'll have to scratch my head some more over what you've found with the audio metronome - it's so contrary to my experience.  I'll have to think about that!

Randy B.