Everything is a Remix V. 2

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Jesse Screed
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2015/12/10 20:08:08 (permalink)

Everything is a Remix V. 2

Ok, I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but I was reading an article in American Scientist concerning G.H. Hardy and his treatise on the aesthetics of mathematics, and it struck me as germane to the discussion of creativity. The excerpt below was lifted from Wikipedia. Bear with me kind souls.
 
“One of the main themes of the book is the beauty that mathematics possesses, which Hardy compares to painting and poetry..[1]
 
For Hardy, the most beautiful mathematics was that which had no practical applications in the outside world (pure mathematics) and, in particular, his own special field of number theory.
 
Hardy contends that if useful knowledge is defined as knowledge which is likely to contribute to the material comfort of mankind in the near future (if not right now), so that mere intellectual satisfaction is irrelevant, then the great bulk of higher mathematics is useless.
 
He justifies the pursuit of pure mathematics with the argument that its very "uselessness" on the whole meant that it could not be misused to cause harm.
 
On the other hand, Hardy denigrates much of the applied mathematics as either being "trivial", "ugly", or "dull", and contrasts it with "real mathematics", which is how he ranks the higher, pure mathematics.”
 
Could we substitute the word mathematics and knowledge with the word music, and would it make sense if we did?  I have done it for you below.
 
“One of the main themes of the book is the beauty that music possesses, which Hardy compares to painting and poetry..[1]
 
For Hardy, the most beautiful music was that which had no practical applications in the outside world (pure music) and, in particular, his own special field of music theory.
 
Hardy contends that if useful music is defined as music which is likely to contribute to the material comfort of mankind in the near future (if not right now), so that mere intellectual satisfaction is irrelevant, then the great bulk of popular music  is useless.
 
He justifies the pursuit of pure music with the argument that its very "uselessness" on the whole meant that it could not be misused to cause harm.
 
On the other hand, Hardy denigrates much of the “popular music” as either being "trivial", "ugly", or "dull", and contrasts it with "real music", which is how he ranks the higher, pure music.”
 
I know this is probably way out of bounds for the “coffee house,” but this is the internet, and this is the way I contribute to the conversation.
 
What say you?
 
Link to the Wikipedia article below.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Mathematician's_Apology
 
Link to the entire treatise below.
 
https://www.math.ualberta...tician's%20Apology.pdf
 
Am I being banal?
 
Jesse Q. Screed
 
(edited to be more easily read, .........like a poem)
post edited by Jesse Screed - 2015/12/10 20:45:48
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    BobF
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/10 20:33:58 (permalink)
    I think it's very interesting, Jesse.  IMO there is no need to change the words though.  Music is very much a mathematical expression like chalk on a board, or pencil on paper.
     
    There was a video posted here not too long ago about German music coming out of WWII into the 60s/70s.  Much of the content in that vid dealt with experimental music.  I think the story parallels the description in the excerpt you provided above, with perhaps more emphasis on influence.
     
    Here it is
     

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/12 10:09:30 (permalink)
    All knowledge is potentially valuable. James Boole was definitely out there, inventing a system that he'd hoped would marry logic and mathematics. Just the kind of useless mind game that nobody but hardcore academics would bother learning about. Aren't we glad now that Claude Shannon bothered?


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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/12 10:33:43 (permalink)
    I think, the more you analyse music, the further away it moves.
     
    Oh, and I failed mathematics.

     
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/12 11:28:45 (permalink)
    Truth be told, math makes my eyes glaze over. For that matter, most "tech" bores me, too.
     
    But if my mix sucks I want to know why, in no uncertain terms. "Mojo" doesn't exist in my reality, only demonstrable facts based on science. Granted, that doesn't help me compose or perform a song, but it makes a huge difference when I go to record it.
     
    It also saves me money. Understanding why expensive USB cables don't make higher-fidelity file copies. Not upgrading my audio interface because a high-end model offers a 144 dB SNR versus 136 dB. Not recording at 192 KHz. Knowing that 12x12" 1-inch-thick acoustic panels would be a waste of money. These are non-musical concepts that nevertheless have musical ramifications.
     
     


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    BobF
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/12 11:43:25 (permalink)
    Speaking of panels ...
     
    Are those kits with a buncha panels in a true waste?  Like this one, for example?
     
    http://www.musiciansfrien...us&source=3WWRWXGP
    post edited by BobF - 2015/12/12 11:56:17

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    Moshkito
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    Re: Everything is a Remix V. 2 2015/12/12 13:05:42 (permalink)
    Hi,
     
    That documentary is less about "music" than it is about the social status and changes, and it starts with that right off the bat and suggesting that Germany was not the only place that it was happening. The results, however, suggests that this might just be one of the most complete of all artistic scenes, because in the end, although the documentary is afraid to touch it, it also included many writers, film makers, actors, and theater. Be it Peter Weiss or Peter Handke, be it Wenders or herzog, be it Klaus Kinski, or the folks that were around CAN and AD2, and other possibilities, it's had to think that it was simply just one thing that had its 15 minutes and died the next week, after its hit song! The arts around it, suggest much more, however, the rock press is not very good at discussing and seeing where other influences come from, other than their favorites, like Elvis or James Brown, for example.
     
    The documentary has two points that very valuable, but I am not sure that many folks pay attention to them, or what the resulting effects they could have on the scene. First, is the one that is mentioned by Edgar Froese, which is rather nice, and in essence nails down the results of WW2 ... no past no future nothing to relate to or copy ... you're on your own kinda thing, and I find that rather interesting ... because of all the destruction, everyone was so isolated that all that was left was ... you got it ... yourself! The other, is more "academic" in my point of view, but it is very visible in the CAN website, when they discuss a bit of music without any "western concepts" in it, which was a total rejection of the conventional music design for the past however many years you want to count.
     
    No one, really spends time, wondering what that meant, and I doubt that it was accidental. The "song" mentality was not what was desired ... and film was different already, and theater was having a revolution doing very weird and bizarre stuff that no one understood ... and then, a week later (so to speak) you get Damo Suzuki joining CAN, and he basically had no lyrics whatsoever for any of the work he did with them! That is total improvisation ... which was the main course of all of that particular set of scenes in Germany!
     
    We, simply, do not understand the main thrust of all that stuff ... improvisation! And when we read Holger Czukay tell you that "Tago Mago" is 20 hours cut and paste with no idea as to what matched or not ... we think he's being an idiot and not a musician ... and both him and the drummer had at least 2 of the biggest names in music instruction in those days with them! They are well known in electronic music birthing ... along with Stockhausen ... but us rockers will not accept that there is history somewhere else and different ... !!!
     
    It's the same with your mathematics, isn't it ... the conventional hates any different ideas! The same in any of the arts!

    Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
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