Export Audio issue

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Midiboy
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2018/04/10 13:04:48 (permalink)

Export Audio issue

I read in another thread that Exporting audio is purely math and does not rely on the audio interface at all.  
 
However, that raises an interesting question / observation for me...

I just got a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. When I went to mix down in CbB, I got horrible audio. (It played just fine in the software before I mixed it down). And no, it wasn't clipping as I limited it.
 
However, at this point, I changed the buffers in the Focusrite to 1024 and Exported again and bingo. It mixed down just fine...no glitches. For fun, I put the buffers back to 128, more scratches and pops.
 
So, if this doesn't use your audio device, can anyone help me understand what is happening here?
 
I should also throw in this tidbit...Doing the same test in Studio One, there were no pops and clicks at 128 buffers. In other words, I don't have to adjust the buffers to mixdown in Studio One.
 
Also, I'm doing a "fast mixdown" in Sonar, not the "real time" mixdown. (So in other words, the default type of Export audio)

----
Gregg
Midiboy Music
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    scook
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 13:41:40 (permalink)
    Try increasing BounceBufSizeMsec in Preferences > Audio > Configuration File
     
     
    #2
    Midiboy
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 13:59:17 (permalink)
    Another interesting fact...Cakewalk cannot mixdown without a soundcard.  As an experiment, I turned off my focusrite, then loaded Cakewalk and got the expected "No audio device" error.  I then did a mixdown, which APPEARED to work, but only provided a 4kb file.  So, I have a friend that did the same thing...just as a test...only he has Sonar...not the new Cakewalk.  Same exact thing happened to him.
     
    So, then I tried Studio One, and after getting the same cute little no audio device errors, I went ahead and mixed down...got a full fledged file that mixed down perfectly. 
     
    So, I'm not sure I agree that Cakewalk / Sonar doesn't utilize the sound card for mixdown as Noel once stated. 

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    Gregg
    Midiboy Music
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    #3
    Midiboy
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 13:59:38 (permalink)
    And I'll try your suggestion as well scook.  Thanks for that. 
     

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    Gregg
    Midiboy Music
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    #4
    scook
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 14:03:04 (permalink)
    Without knowing a lot about the internals of each program, I am not sure what conclusions can be drawn by these types of tests other than the DAWs are different.
    #5
    Midiboy
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 14:05:07 (permalink)
    Oh, I agree.  Honestly, I want Cakewalk to work for me.  I know the workflow, and I love the MIDI editing capabilities.  But with the mixdown quality I was getting, I was concerned.  I will definitely try your suggestion when I get home work this eve.  Thanks!

    ----
    Gregg
    Midiboy Music
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    #6
    tecknot
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/10 22:43:31 (permalink)
    You don't need an interface or even a sound card.  You just need an audio output (real or not real, can't think of another word for fake).  I have Reaper installed on the same machine as SONAR/CbB and can create a mixdown file just by selecting one of those phony outputs created by Reaper in SONAR.  Just make sure your Master output is set accordingly (not that I know you have Reaper installed too).
     
    Hit back to discuss further, if desired.
     
    Kind regards,
     
    tecknot
    #7
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/11 20:17:37 (permalink)
    My guess is in the absence of the Focusrite audio driver the Software will revert to your on board audio cards driver and use that. Sonar has always been a bit finicky about this. Not a problem for me as on my main DAW I don't even install on board audio drivers. I have an interface and that's all I've ever used. And I perform hundreds of mix downs monthy and I have never had them not be exactly the way it should be. I just use the default setting sans the change to 16 bit. My buffers are always the same at 128. I never touch them these days. 

    Johnny V  
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    #8
    Base 57
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/11 20:28:07 (permalink)
    The export options in Cakewalk are more comprehensive than some other DAWs. This leads to confusion for some users. One of the options for audio export is the "Source Category" which includes Tracks, Buses, Hardware Outputs, Entire Mix and Clips.
     
    It sounds to me like you have Hardware Outputs selected in this field.
     
    I usually bounce my mixes to a track and then export the clip.
    #9
    Midiboy
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/12 13:33:26 (permalink)
    Base 57
    The export options in Cakewalk are more comprehensive than some other DAWs. This leads to confusion for some users. One of the options for audio export is the "Source Category" which includes Tracks, Buses, Hardware Outputs, Entire Mix and Clips.
     
    It sounds to me like you have Hardware Outputs selected in this field.
     
    I usually bounce my mixes to a track and then export the clip.




    Base, you nailed it.  Doing a mix to a bus, and selecting Master solved it.  Thank you!  

    @Cactus Music:  I do not have onboard audio.  I built my machine from the ground up, and the last thing I wanted was onboard anything. 

    ----
    Gregg
    Midiboy Music
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    #10
    bitflipper
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/12 15:28:03 (permalink)
    Good catch, Base 57. Obviously, anything routed to a nonexistent device is going into the bitbucket.
     
    However, the original assertion that the export does not rely on the audio interface remains valid, insofar as the interface has no bearing on what the exported audio sounds like. Whether you have a $7,500 Lavry or a $10 Realtek you'll get exactly the same results when exporting. 


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    brundlefly
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    Re: Export Audio issue 2018/04/12 17:51:07 (permalink)
    scook
    Try increasing BounceBufSizeMsec in Preferences > Audio > Configuration File
     

     
    Just to clarify why this works, the default value of zero for BounceBufSizeMsec in tells SONAR to do offline audio processing using the buffer size currently set for the audio driver. So even though SONAR isn't actually using the interface to generate audio, changing the buffer size for the driver affects offline (a.k.a. Fast Bounce) rendering as well, and some plugins can get unhappy with Fast Bouncing at low buffer sizes.
     
    Setting a non-zero value for BounceBufSizeMsec overrides the driver setting with a larger value for offline processing. Values from 20 to 200 (milliseconds) are reasonable, and may speed up processing as well as eliminating glitches with some plugins.

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    #12
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