Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar

Author
bryan2449
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 29
  • Joined: 2009/06/03 10:45:06
  • Status: offline
2012/05/30 07:16:16 (permalink)

Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar

Hi all,
 
This is a new one for me and I can't seem to figure it out. Hopefully, someone has come across this situation...
 
I'm working in Sonar 8 Producer. I've got the levels like I like 'em so I go to export the mixdown. Once the file is exported, I listen to it. The levels are screwy. Sounds like the vocal is either louder or everything else is softer. Either way, the mix isn't the same as what I am hearing in SONAR. I've tried this with various export file types, .wav, .mp3 and multiple bit depths and sample rates with the same result. Any suggestions?
 
Thanks,
 
Bryan
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    Kalle Rantaaho
    Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7005
    • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
    • Location: Finland
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 08:00:29 (permalink)
    What do you use for listening to the exported files - Windows Media Player?? Make sure you don't have any compressing or such activated there. Do the files sound right when you export them back to SONAR?

    Have you got everything routed through Master Bus to your soundcard?

    Double check you export settings.

    Anyway, if you listen to the exported song using different software, OR different player OR different loudsperakers or whatever, the mix is very likely to sound different, the more so, if you're unexperienced. The most difficult task in home recording is to make products that translate well in any reproduction system.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #2
    daveny5
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16934
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 09:54:36
    • Location: North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 09:20:03 (permalink)
    Only use WAV files to check your exports. MP3s are compressed and could sound different depending on the bit rate you choose. You should be exporting to 16bit, 44.1KHz WAV files if you plan to burn to a standard audio CD.

    I agree with Kalle... if the WAV file sounds different in Windows Media Player than it does in Cakewalk, you may have some effects or EQ setting making it sound different. Import the WAV file to Sonar and check it there. 

    Dave
    Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
    Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX
    Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic.
    Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. 
    Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
    #3
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 09:52:07 (permalink)
    Have you got everything routed through Master Bus to your soundcard?

    this is the most common mistake IMO for this problem.  make sure ALL tracks and ALL buses are routed to the MASTER and ONLY the Master is allowed to route to the soundcard.  if you have any tracks or buses summing at the soundcard and not summing at the master, then you will have problems.  either the sound will be too low, or more than likely, you can start clipping and have digital distortion because of summing too hot at the soundcard.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #4
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 10:35:23 (permalink)
    Make sure all automation is enabled in the export options. Unchecking the "clip automation", "track automation" or "bus automation" options will cause exactly the symptoms you're describing.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #5
    bryan2449
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 29
    • Joined: 2009/06/03 10:45:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 17:51:32 (permalink)
    All great suggestions. Thank you for the quick replies.

    The music sounds the same (bad) when I import the .wav back into Sonar as it does when I listen to it on WMP, so it's not a matter of what device/program is playing the file.

    I double-checked my signal routing and export options. All automation, etc. is enabled for the export. I have everything mixed down to 4 audio tracks - vocal, piano/strings, guitar/bass, and percussion. Those 4 audio tracks' output is routed to 4 buses that have volume automation. The 4 buses are routed to the master bus which is routed to the audio interface. I'm not sure how any other signals could be getting augmented into the export. I even tried soloing the four tracks during export just to be sure ... with the same result.

    [P.S. I know the 4 track to 4 bus thing is redundant, it was an artifact of an earlier work process]
     
    EDIT: FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM. WHEN I MIXED DOWN TO THE FOUR TRACKS, I ARCHIVED THE REST OF THE TRACKS AND ASSUMED THAT MEANT THEY WOULD BE MUTED. THEY WERE ALSO HIDDEN SO I COULDN'T SEE THE METERS GOING FULL TILT BOOGY. LONG STORY SHORT, I HAD THOSE HIDDEN ARCHIVED TRACKS FEEDING INTO THE INSTRUMENT BUSES ALONG WITH THE MIXED DOWN TRACKS (NOT TRUE FOR THE VOCAL MIX, ERGO THE LOUDER VOCAL DURING EXPORT WHICH WAS SUMMING ALL THE TRACKS (INCLUDING THE HIDDEN ONES) THROUGH THE BUSES. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THE HELP. YOU MADE ME CHALLENGE MY ASSUMPTIONS. ONE LAST QUESTION... WHAT EXACTLY DOES ARCHIVING A TRACK DO? I ASSUMED THAT MEANT IT WOULD FILE THE AUDIO AWAY SOMEWHERE TO REDUCE THE SYSTEM BURDEN.
    post edited by bryan2449 - 2012/05/30 18:14:48
    #6
    Kalle Rantaaho
    Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7005
    • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
    • Location: Finland
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 18:51:43 (permalink)
    That's a new one to me. Whenever I've archived a track it has "died" in the very moment.
    It doesn't file the audio anywhere, AFAIK, but just cuts the track off completely. A muted track is being monitored during playback or tracking to be instantly unmuted if needed, but an archived track is "put aside".

    It sounds more than weird that those archived tracks are not being  heard inside the project (you said the project sounds fine before export) but appeasr audible in the exported wav. Really, really odd.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #7
    Cactus Music
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8424
    • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 19:58:08 (permalink)
    Somehow it doesn't surprise me 'cause after all we are talking computer software here which will always behave in spooky ways.
     
    But generally speaking the export, for me, has always resulted in a file that sounded like what Sonar played back. The only trick and I,m not alone, is I use /edit/select none/ before export.
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2012/05/30 19:59:44

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #8
    bryan2449
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 29
    • Joined: 2009/06/03 10:45:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/30 23:32:02 (permalink)
    I was hearing the archived tracks during playback in Sonar, I just didn't know it. (So, I was hearing double volume for several tracks, and I had automated the volume levels so that it sounded correct to me). Then, when I exported (only the non-archived tracks), the ones that were in-fact doubled, came out sounding quite a bit (half) softer than in Sonar. Hope that makes sense.
    #9
    Kalle Rantaaho
    Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7005
    • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
    • Location: Finland
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/31 07:57:54 (permalink)
    bryan2449


    I was hearing the archived tracks during playback in Sonar, I just didn't know it. (So, I was hearing double volume for several tracks, and I had automated the volume levels so that it sounded correct to me). Then, when I exported (only the non-archived tracks), the ones that were in-fact doubled, came out sounding quite a bit (half) softer than in Sonar. Hope that makes sense.


    Ok. It was the other way round... My misunderstanding.
    Anyways ... I've never experienced nor heard anyone else experience archived tracks being audible.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #10
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/31 12:45:44 (permalink)
    Archived tracks are not audible. They are completely ignored by the engine as if they weren't even there. However, it's understandable that someone might hide a track while forgetting to archive it. 

    The curious thing here is that the hidden tracks were only audible during export and not during normal playback within the project. The only scenario I can think of that would explain that is if the tracks were muted and hidden but not archived, and then the "track mute/solo" option was unchecked prior to exporting.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    mixsit
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 789
    • Joined: 2004/04/30 11:04:24
    • Location: CathouseSound
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/31 13:40:04 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    Archived tracks are not audible. They are completely ignored by the engine as if they weren't even there. However, it's understandable that someone might hide a track while forgetting to archive it. 

    The curious thing here is that the hidden tracks were only audible during export and not during normal playback within the project. The only scenario I can think of that would explain that is if the tracks were muted and hidden but not archived, and then the "track mute/solo" option was unchecked prior to exporting.

    Good call, otherwise, forget whether it's 'playback or export, archived tracks playing?
    I was hearing the archived tracks during playback in Sonar, I just didn't know it. (So, I was hearing double volume for several tracks, and I had automated the volume levels so that it sounded correct to me).

    Big grin here. One of my fave stupid pet tricks is opening up and mixing on a song that has a previously bounced-to-track mix track playing along unmuted while I wonder why moves just doesn't seem to have the effect they should!
     
     
     
     

    Wayne Smith
    Part time long time..
    CathouseSound 
    Mother Ships  - StudioCat DAWs   
    Portals - RME
    #12
    HeatherHaze
    Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 334
    • Joined: 2005/07/05 09:35:40
    • Location: Washington DC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Exported Audio levels are relatively different than in Sonar 2012/05/31 17:56:37 (permalink)
    But generally speaking the export, for me, has always resulted in a file that sounded like what Sonar played back. The only trick and I,m not alone, is I use /edit/select none/ before export.

     
    Good point, and there's a really easy shortcut for that.  Just hit "5" on the numeric keypad with NUMLOCK OFF (cursor mode) to select none. 

    )-|-( HeatherHaze
    http://heatherhaze.com/

    "This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." ~ Leonard Bernstein

    Cakewalk by Bandlab
    Studio One 3.5, Cubase 9.5
    Intel Core i7  8700, 32Gb RAM
    Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
    V-Studio VS-700
    Slate Raven MTi2
    Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
    ...and a whole bunch of other stuff.
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1