Helpful ReplyExported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiver

Author
Calkwalker
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 117
  • Joined: 2010/07/16 10:59:52
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Status: offline
2013/04/03 01:44:53 (permalink)

Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiver

To produce a bass line in some of my projects, I am using a MIDI track generated from a guitar-to-MIDI interface as input to a bass synth plugin.  I've been using Dimension Pro "Synth Basses" plugins like Ballad Bass, Warm Finger Bass and Obscure 2.  I set all the notes in the bass MIDI track to a common velocity value (like 100 or 110) to get a consistent bass line volume throughout the song.
 
When I export a WAV file and play it through various reference systems, everything is good - the bass line volume is consistent, even if the bass line covers a couple of octaves.
 
BUT, on my best sound system - a high-end Denon receiver with highly-rated Burr-Brown DAC's, pushing a pair of Polk Audio tower speakers (in stereo mode) - the three or four lowest bass notes (E3, F3, F#3, G3) are always overpoweringly loud, while higher bass notes are of normal volume.  I've double-checked the receiver settings.  I'm using the Denon's "direct" audio mode, which means NO signal processing in the Denon, and I turned off the subwoofer just in case.
 
It makes no difference how I feed the audio to the Denon.  I've used both a PC running Windows Media Player (playing the export WAV files) connected to the Denon via HDMI, and a run-of-the-mill CD player playing a redbook CD burned on my studio system (directly from the export WAV files), connected to the Denon via a standard optical digital audio interface.  The sound is the same - the lowest 3 or 4 bass notes are individually, discretely way louder than the rest of the bass line.
 
I even swapped out the Polk Audio tower speakers and tried a different pair of speakers, but still get this huge, discrete volume boost on each of the lowest bass notes.
 
The volume anomaly is the same regardless of which of the previously-mentioned Dim Pro synth bass plugins I use.  They all exhibit the same issue through the Denon.
 
Has anyone ever experienced anything like this using synth bass plugins?  I have no idea why this is happening, but I'm wondering if there is something unique about the bass synth waveform that is causing the Denon's DAC's to overamplify the lowest notes.  The issue feels like a D-to-A conversion error, because it is so discrete, but why only on those few notes, and why has this never occurred with any of the other, wide variety of CD-based music that I play through that receiver?
 
post edited by Calkwalker - 2013/04/03 02:11:00
#1
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4124
  • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 08:25:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
While it is possible that there is something wrong with your amp, it sounds rather more like room issues. The room is responding to certain frequencies that are reinforcing the bass notes that match the resonant frequencies.

See this article as a starting point for learning about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_modes

Regards,
Dan

Mixing is all about control.
 
My music:
http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
#2
CJaysMusic
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 30423
  • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
  • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 12:05:42 (permalink)
Yea, is a room problem and/or a mixing problem. Getting it to translate on all stereo systems is hard to do if your room isn't tuned. Because you do not hear the true sound of the tracks and songs. So this leads to your stuff not translating on different sound systems. 

It probably is due to your mixing techniques also. But, without hearing the true sound, how could you ever mix it right?

Cj

www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
Audio Blog
#3
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5289
  • Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 13:25:33 (permalink)
It should be possible to test the room problem theory by feeding a cheap amp into a set of cheap speakers located at the same points in the same room. Until you do that, I would not rule out the real possibility that the bass response of the Denon setup is just significantly more sensitive than what you use to mix or other test play setups. If the problem occurs only with the Denon, then call it a mixing problem and drop the saturation of the bass in your mix. You never know when someone may play your music on a high end system, and judging by some of the commercial stuff out there, you would not be the only mixer who leans too heavily on the bass.

#4
bandso
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 361
  • Joined: 2007/04/15 23:48:13
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 14:02:34 (permalink)
Could it be that the samples themselves are louder (preceived loudness) even though the midi velocities are the same?
You may want to try bouncing the tracks to a wave file and then hitting them with a multiband compressor to make sure they are all level.
The above is just a guess, but honestly, it really sounds like you are hitting a resonant frequency of the speakers or the room and that is causing the bass to jump.

Bandlab Platinum and every other toy I can get my hands on...and yes I'm way in debt over this obsession...
#5
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5289
  • Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 16:20:30 (permalink)
bandso has a point. There is no consistent correlation between midi velocity and actual loudness between programs or samples in a given synth, let alone between synths. But that would not cause the difference in perceived relative loudness using a different amp and speakers.

btw unless you are doing trance, why do you want a monotonous bass line?
#6
Calkwalker
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 117
  • Joined: 2010/07/16 10:59:52
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Status: offline
Re:Exported WAV files with Dim Pro synth bass tracks freaking out on high-end Denon receiv 2013/04/03 17:06:53 (permalink)
UPDATE - Those of you who pointed to a room problem are right.  I ran the Denon system's "Audyssey" room tuning function, and tested again with some other recordings.  It turns out that the room that the Denon sits in just resonates like crazy at around 41 Hz.

Thanks for the feedback.
#7
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1