Exported audio is louder than in Sonar

I'm having an unusual issue with audio levels since upgrading to Sonar X1, and I have never encountered this in any other versions of Sonar (I've owned every version since ProAudio 9). I exported a mono lead vocal audio track from a project, that had already been cleaned up and bounced to a single clip. The track fader was at 0, and I exported it as just a mono track without running it through the main bus at all, keeping the same sample rate and bit depth, and deselecting any "Mix Enables" that are unnecessary. This is commonly how I would export individual audio files to use in other applications. Here's a screen shot of my export:



I was exporting the file in order to import it into Melodyne, which I use to tune vocals, and it is far more stable running as a standalone program than as a plugin in Sonar. I noticed immediately in Melodyne that the audio sounded louder, so I closed it without processing or saving it, and imported the file back into Sonar to check the actual WAV file, not wanting to trust my ears. Sure enough, the audio file is exactly 3dB louder than the one I exported, and I have no idea why. Here is a screen shot showing the two files: track 4 is the original I exported, and track 3 is the one I imported. As you can see, track 4 was assigned to the main output of my audio interface, a Mackie Onyx Blackbird, before I exported it, and there are no plugins on the track, and the ProChannel is completely disabled on the track as well.



And here is a screen shot of my main audio interface output in Sonar, which is what the track was assigned to, so you can see that the level is at 0:



Lastly, here is a screen shot of my Mackie Blackbird Control software, so you can see that all of my output levels are at 0, and are therefore not contributing to a level increase of an audio export:



I have attempted this several times with several different files, and always have the same results. If anyone has any ideas or insight regarding why my exported audio is experiencing a 3dB increase in level, I would greatly appreciate it! I operate a recording studio as a business, so obviously having an issue like this is not acceptable, especially when exporting final mixes or masters! Thanks in advance.

Tim
River Music Productions

Ah, actually, I might be wrong here, if you're exporting the track rather than the mix. Worht checking the interleave in the track itself, though.

John T


Ah, actually, I might be wrong here, if you're exporting the track rather than the mix. Worht checking the interleave in the track itself, though.

Yes, I'm not exporting a stereo mix to mono, as the track is mono, and I'm exporting only the track. I always have a master bus, through which I ultimately route all my tracks, even if they go through other sub busses first. I have also attempted to export the entire mix in mono, directly through my audio output, selecting only this track/clip to export; as well as routing the track through my master bus and changing the master bus to mono, again selecting only the track/clip to export. Same results each time, exported audio is exactly 3dB louder than the one I exported!

How do I "check in the interleave in the track itself"?

Tim

was it normalized on export or after?

VigilantSound


was it normalized on export or after?

No, it was not normalized in any way - in fact, I'm not sure I know how to normalize an audio file on export.
Tim

John T


Ah, actually, I might be wrong here, if you're exporting the track rather than the mix. Worht checking the interleave in the track itself, though.

OK I found the issue! John T and Jaydrake, you were right, it was the interleave on the track itself (the term originally threw me, but then I remembered). It was specified as stereo on the track, when the audio file in the track is mono, and of course I was exporting it as mono... so of course it was technically "summing" it which produced 3dB of gain on it. As far as I know, no previous version of Sonar has done this, as I have never needed to worry about whether a track containing only mono audio files was specified as a mono or stereo track.

Thanks to all for your input, it is appreciated.
Tim

Why don't you use 0dB center?

Then it will not matter how many times SONAR swaps your interleave back and forth unexpectedly... now that interleave is hidden out of sight in the Inspector window... it is likely that you will never see that it switched until you have wasted your time with a export or bounce gone bad.

http://www.harmoniccycle....NAR/Sonar-pan-laws.pdf

mike_mccue


Why don't you use 0dB center?

Then it will not matter how many times SONAR swaps your interleave back and forth unexpectedly... now that interleave is hidden out of sight in the Inspector window... it is likely that you will never see that it switched until you have wasted your time with a export or bounce gone bad.

http://www.harmoniccycle....NAR/Sonar-pan-laws.pdf

I currently use 0dB center, sin/cos taper, constant power. According to the Sonar Pan Laws document you included, exporting a mono clip as mono with my current panning law settings when the track interleave is stereo will result in a 3dB increase, regardless of track panning or automation settings. In fact, I don't see any examples in that document of levels staying the same on clip export regardless of the track interleave - the figures would support the fact that it DOES matter what the track interleave is set at... in every example there is a 3dB difference, for every kind of panning law type. Am I missing something?

I don't think you are missing anything... you seem to have considered all the choices.

I realize that I was mistaken about what will happen in the specific circumstance you are working with.

I guess I never export a mono track and always export stereo tracks, simply by circumstance, not by preference, and so I thought 0dB Center Balance control would eliminate the issue.

It will not, but in all other respects it seems to me that 0dB Center Balance control is the most predictable and offers the least unexpected consequences so that is why I prefer to use it.

best regards,
mike

You could try bounceing it to a clip or consolidate track and then just pull it out of the projects audio folder?

I just experienced this when exporting a simple 2 track song to mp3.  Way too hot. I had the master bus fader down to almost nothing. When I exported to wave it sounds ok.  I'm at a loss here.