Exported audio sounds like butt! Help...

I need some advice on things to try when exporting my Sonar files to RIFF wave, MP3 or AIFF. Currently, I can get a pretty decent sounding mix when playing within the Sonar environment, but my .wav and .mp3 files sound terrible compared to it: somewhat muffled and bass heavy.

I'm using Sonar 3 Producer with Reason 3.0. Basically, I create tracks in Reason, then export as AIFF into Sonar. They sound incredible. Vocals and live inst. are added and sound great. Mix down occurs (export audio) and it sounds nothing like what I mixed.

My soundcard is M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496. Would this be a soundcard issue? I'm not familiar with the differences between MME, ASIO and DX, but does one work better than the other? Could this be the culprit? Any other settings within SONAR I should be looking to tweak?

Help!! Thanks, everyone!

DJ

I am actually using MediaPlayer Classic... an app that runs all kinds of media.. Most everything else sounds good, just not my mixes.. hmm...

dj

Dcastle's probably right - it's your export settings and/or what you're selecting to export (specific tracks, busses, etc).

Just out of curiosity, exactly what does butt sound like?

If playing back thru Windows Media Player, make sure you turn off the equalizer.

Actually the SUCK knob is located inside the BUTT tab .

Just out of curiosity, exactly what does butt sound like?

Butt sounds like this----> (_l_)

_____________________________



THAT was hilarious!
worked all my life with the sound of butt, known well...!
lots of bottom end...

less highs, must be Sonar

Try this: Import your exported file into Sonar (perhaps on a new track in the very same project you just exported) and listen to it. Does it still sound like butt in comparison?

Make sure you export what you're listening. Route everything to Master Bus
and choose the Master Bus as the export source and make sure the signal in Master Bus does not clip.

Exporting is such a straightforward procedure that it requires extra effort to fail in it :o).

Exporting is such a straightforward procedure that it requires extra effort to fail in it :o).

 
You are right, Kalle.  Exporting a file is, indeed, easy.  However, I'm not sure that the problem described by the person who initiated this thread ( David J) has anything to do with the exporting process, per se.   Rather, he may be describing the same problem I have been having. 
 
For clarity, let me first re-describe, in detail,  the problem.  I have 2 laptops.  I use laptop 1 to do my recording using the Sonar/Fireface RME system.  The sound card for Laptop 1 is the Fireface 400.  Laptop 1 has no other soundcard that I can access.    My second laptop (laptop 2) is for general use and has a typical sound card that might come installed with any laptop.   It is a Toshiba Satellite with harmon/kardon speakers.   A professionally mastered CD sounds fine on laptop 2 (even better through my headphones, of course).   Now let's go  back to laptop 1.    My tracks and mixes in Sonar - using the RME fireface sound card and my headphones-  sound fantastic.   Even the exported wav file played through Windows Media Player on laptop1 sounds pristine in its richness, warmth, and clarity.    However, that same wav file, which was recorded and mixed on the sonar/rme system (laptop1), sounds terrible when I play it on laptop 2.     It sounds terrible even if I use the same headphones.  The apparent degradation of sound is not subtle.  It really sounds as if someone stuffed wet tissue into my headphones.   Remember that laptop 2 does not have an upgraded sound card as does my laptop 1 (RME fireface 400); it only has the original sound card.   I should also empahsize that when a professionally mastered CD (or mp3, or whatever) is played on laptop 2, whether it be through the speakers or headphones, it sounds good.   Now, I think I know what my problem might be.  It's just a novice's theory, so I would appreciate the experts on this board to offer their insights and opinions.  But before I explain my theory, it might be helpful if I first describe what might be an analogous (and even more common) problem.
 
I have seen discussion board posts where my fellow recording novices bemoan the fact that their mixed and mastered files sound great on a nice speaker system but sound disproportionately worse on a cheaper system (such as laptop speakers).   Obviously, this is very reminiscent of my problem described above.  The reason for this problem is clear.  Typically what happens is that the novice has recorded, mixed, and mastered his tracks on a system that uses good speakers or headphones.   He gets a great sound and is excited about posting his mp3 for download.  Thinking that he has 'nailed' his mix, he then plays it on his laptop expecting to hear something almost as impressive.  The results are often very disappointing.   'What the f... is the problem' he says to himself.  'Did the file somehow get screwed up when I exported it?  It can't be my speakers or the soundcard, because my David Wilcox CD sound absolutely fine.'   As has been explained to me, the reason for this problem is due to faulty mixing and mastering.   First, one should avoid mixing and mastering on headphones.  The reason has to do with altered frequency perception.  Second, one should mix and master using near-field monitors.  These are speakers with a very flat frequency response curve and by listening in close proximity you minimize the interference from standing wave or reflected frequencies.  If you get a good sound on the near-field monitors, chances are that you will get a good sound on other systems as well.   Unfortunately, this last statement is not alway true.  Effective mixing and mastering is an art, and apparently it is very difficult to acheive professinal results with the typical home recording system.   For this reason, many home recording enthusiasts end up mixing on a variety of systems in an attempt to acheive something that sounds good on a variety of systems.   This frequently requires some measure of compromise. 
 
Ok, if you are still with me, I'd like to return to my original problem with laptop 1 and laptop 2.  Why do my mixes sound so different on the two systems if I am using the same headphones?   The soundcard on laptop 2 can't be defective since my store-bought CD's sound good.  The exported wav file can't be corrupted since it also sounds good on laptop 1.   Could the answer be analogous to the explanation in the preceding paragraph?  That is, is it possible that 2 different soundcards could have significantly different frequency response curves, just like speakers?  Therefore, if I mix using soundcard 1, maybe I will get a markedly different sound when I play it through a lesser quality soundcard (keeping the speaker system constant).  If this is the case, then is the solution to have my mixing and mastering done professionally or to do it myself on multiple systems, hoping to find a reasonable compromise?   Please discuss.    And thanks in advance for your help.
 
Jim
 
PS: In fact, after doing a significant amount of re-eq'ing using SoundForge on laptop 2, my exported wav file now sounds pretty good on laptop 2.   Furthermore, it still sounds good on laptop 1, though not as good as before.  Do we need global quality standards for soundcards?  Is anyone else struggling with this issue?
 
 
 

The only time I've had a bounce that sounded different than its Sonar session is when I've had all tracks going to a master bus (which points to output 1-2) then mistakingly left one track going directly to 1-2 (bypassing the master bus processing). 

It might also be worth pointing out...

Sometimes you STRIKE OUT on a mix.  Same preformers, same gear, same person mixing but still very different outcome.  Could be due to different freqs, the arrangment itself , different conversion, or a mistake made by the mixer. 

Oops. Too much to take :o)

One thing though: An excellent mix (EM for short) done with excellent soudcard and excellent loudspeakers can be called excellent only if it translates to other systems. That's the whole point! If the EM sounds bad on some other soundsystem it's useless, it is NOT a good mix then. You realise that all commercial CDs can be thrown in any player and they sound OK or great depending on the system. That's how the mix must be. Any speculation you seem to like :o) doesn't lead anywhere.

Every soundsystem sounds different, and an EM sounds good everywhere (in relation to the quality of the soundsystem).

One of the key things of your problem setting is that you don't compare how the wav sounds through the integrated soundcard of laptop #1 and #2. Most likely it's almost the same.

I did not mean that you are surprised by the quality difference of the laptop speakers. It was a comment to your statement, where you said that people are.

Roey Izhakis book "Mixing Audio" is good read in developing your mixing skills.

You're not alone. It's hard for many beginners to believe that a mix that sounds good by the studio working spot is absolutely useless in other surroundings. One good way to learn is to import a commercial track on one track of your project and compare the sounds and frequency curves.

OP= Original Post

It all come back to having your monitoring set up in a way as to make mixes that will playback nicely on 99% of the systems out there. And remember, these days that's a lot of crappy audio systems.  Most of us who have succeeded in this endeavor will have at least 4 playback systems at hand.
1- Near-fields- your work horse, put your money here. 
2- Full range system and loud - good quality 12"LF and subs.  
3- Getto or computer speakers, must be made of plastic for best sound. ;}
4- good Headphones.
5- Cheap ear buds
I takes some experience to develop the "ears" that will give you satisfying results. Know one can expect to get it right without practice.
You also need to understand your audio formats, conversions and playback equipment ( software?) It is much easier to make a mess of things with a computer than it would have been with a tape based system.
The OP from 2007 and newer have obviously set something up in the playback that is not the same on both. Only other thing comes to mind is file format and codex issues.

Thanks Kalle.

drjgs20


Thanks Kalle.

You're welcome!

If your WAVs and CDs don't sound exactly like it sounds in Sonar, then you're doing something wrong. They should sound exactly the same on the same audio equipment. If you're playing them back on Windows Media Player, make sure the SOHS and EQ are off.