chamlin
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Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
Guys, I just sent a non-clipping vocal track to a friend. He received a clipping track. I only NOW realize that when I'm exporting tracks the fader level is impacting what goes out.
Normal? Screwed up setting? I mean, it makes sense for doing a mix but I'm sending tracks out for someone else to mix and I think I've been screwing this up.
Help? :)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 08:58:33
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2018/03/11 11:28:26
What are your Export settings?
The only thing I know of that will increase Export levels is if you use "Entire Mix" and you have 2 or more hardware outputs enabled.
Each additional pair will add 6dB
For this reason I always use "Main Outs" when exporting.
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joegab
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 09:12:50
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☄ Helpfulby Cactus Music 2018/03/11 20:24:29
I usually do this for sending tracks to someone else (this procedure may not be used by many people and keep in mind that in this way I send only the "recordings" without any processing at all)...
1: open the audio folder with windows explorer and set it to see all the files sorted by DATE
2: select all clips of that particular track (maybe slip edit the first clip to ZERO position, or to a particular bar number - this will help your friend to position the recording easily).
3: bounce to clips the particuar clips of that track with the Bounce to Clips command.
4: go back to windows explorer: the first file is what I send....
Quick, isn't it?
ehehe
Giorgio
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 10:42:10
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2018/03/11 11:27:52
Ok, well...What is it that you need help for, if you already realised that the
track fader sets the export level?
Recording in 24 bits there's no need to drive the level higher than around -12 dB (peaks maybe a little higher), if you're sending stuff for someone else to mix.
Inside SONAR the the signal is 32 bit floating point, which in practice means it doesn't clip (audibly). When you export, you need to check the signal levels, otherwise you get clipped audio.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 10:46:27
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2018/03/11 11:27:47
If they are complete Audio tracks (which they should be) you can drag the Audio tracks to the browser and re-name them Or send him the Working projects Audio folder. Don't use fader export if he is mixing it.
If someone else is mixing your project, you don't want to send mixed single tracks. You want to send what is requested by the engineer. Use the Track export options to select tracks only if there is a sample rate change, you've done gain automation exc).
But more often than not, you don't want something mixed twice, you want to send Raw data tracks.
Raw data tracks= Exactly what you recorded.
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chamlin
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 11:32:12
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The need is to send raw tracks to my mixing engineer for mixing. Usually I Export Audio --- select Tracks as the "source category", 44.1 / 24-Bit. I just never realized my fader levels were impacting the levels. Happened once before and I was rookie-mystified. I thought it was only if I was sending a rough mix, in my case, selecting "Buss", Master Buss.
Was hoping there was a setting to bypass the fader on this.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 13:54:14
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☼ Best Answerby chamlin 2018/03/11 19:57:16
If you need to export the raw tracks you can do that by using the export settings.
The easiest way to do it is to select the export preset "Raw Tracks - No Automation/Fx".
This will export the each track as an individual wave file without any track fx or automation applied.
The preset basically disables the track automation checkbox and fx while exporting individual tracks. If you want the track fx (including the prochannel settings) then you can re-enable that checkbox.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 14:52:36
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The easiest way to do it is to select the export preset "Raw Tracks - No Automation/Fx".
This will export the each track as an individual wave file without any track fx or automation applied.
Isn't that essentially the same as what is already in the projects audio folder (granted audio tracks are "Bounced to clips") ? chamlin
I just never realized my fader levels were impacting the levels. Happened once before and I was rookie-mystified. I thought it was only if I was sending a rough mix, in my case, selecting "Buss", Master Buss.
I've been there myself. It funny Export is the last thing in the chain of production, yet its the one thing I've always taken for granite (export settings wise). Until a few years back I really dove in to the options/presets and how not only the master bus but the main outs can effect a mix. With all that said.. I think Noel gave you the best answer. Its just not the way I do it. I send the working project folder with complete tracks that all start at the same 101:01 beat so everything lines up. the last thing another engineer wants to deal with is lining up your clips. So that is something to keep in mind.
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chamlin
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/11 20:04:05
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
If you need to export the raw tracks you can do that by using the export settings.
The easiest way to do it is to select the export preset "Raw Tracks - No Automation/Fx".
This will export the each track as an individual wave file without any track fx or automation applied.
The preset basically disables the track automation checkbox and fx while exporting individual tracks. If you want the track fx (including the prochannel settings) then you can re-enable that checkbox.
SONAR Nirvana! All of the guidance on this thread has been great but Noel...THANKS for this. It's a Chamlin-Proof export option. It's been so long since I even looked at the presets. Some good options that will save me time. QUESTION: When I wasn't using "Raw", were my panning settings also getting exported? Gain?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 00:11:04
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2018/03/12 00:15:41
chuckebaby
Isn't that essentially the same as what is already in the projects audio folder (granted audio tracks are "Bounced to clips") ?
No because the data in the audio folder is just the raw data. You could have clip envelopes and slip edits, slices etc to clips that you wouldn't get if you looked at the audio folder. The only way to get that is by rendering the track. Same applies to instrument tracks as well. Exporting with source category tracks is the best way to get the track data rendered and flattened. Its the same logic used internally when we render to OMF etc.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 00:13:27
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin 2018/03/12 00:15:36
chamlin
QUESTION: When I wasn't using "Raw", were my panning settings also getting exported? Gain?
Yes if you don't use RAW by default track gain/pan effects and all envelopes will also be rendered. This happens even if the source category for export is "tracks". Thats why we have those checkboxes. Its worth learning what they do - the presets just help automate it for you :)
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chamlin
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 00:23:09
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So helpful, thanks. I am now re-exporting all of the tracks for the two albums going to my mixing engineer. Saving us a lot of wtf moments!
Gratitude!
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 01:02:05
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This is pretty much the approach I've used whenever I want to hand off stems for someone else to mix. BTW to hand off to a mix engineer, you probably want to set the checkbox to render clip effects, clip gain and automation since I consider those part of the track rather than "mixing".
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chamlin
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 01:25:36
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
This is pretty much the approach I've used whenever I want to hand off stems for someone else to mix. BTW to hand off to a mix engineer, you probably want to set the checkbox to render clip effects, clip gain and automation since I consider those part of the track rather than "mixing".
Noel, so if after recording, I mute noise, do cross fades, adjust gain in a clip within a track but otherwise don't do anything like EQ or compress or other such voodoo, choosing the preset "Raw Tracks - No Automation/Fx" is what I need to use. But regarding the check boxes: Under "Mix Enables" I don't see all of those check box options. Am I looking in the wrong place? Here's a screen shot of what my Platinum shows: https://www.screencast.com/t/BiuaBiBcsu Also, If I've muted sections, should I also select Track mute/solo? What about 64-bit Engine? Dithering?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Exporting Tracks without affecting levels
2018/03/12 02:21:40
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If you use the no automation/fx preset it unchecks the "Clip automation" which is required to render clip gain envelopes. I dont remember whether clip mutes are affected by that setting as well. Cross fades will be rendered irrespective. You can do a test to see how the checkboxes affect the output.
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