Exporting a final mix

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jrfrogers
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2012/03/07 01:58:44 (permalink)

Exporting a final mix

If I have a Master bus in my project file that contains everything I want the project to sound like, does it make sense to just export that bus to a wav as opposed to the "entire mix".

I been asking everyone a lot lately. I promise when I know something, I'll try to help others!

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 02:29:00 (permalink)
    Yes. The recommended procedure is that you export your Master Bus, and take care of that everything is routed through it. That's the easiest way to make sure everything is under control.

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    jrfrogers
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 02:33:12 (permalink)
    Thank you !

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    #3
    dillyboy
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 04:50:00 (permalink)
    Yes. The recommended procedure is that you export your Master Bus, and take care of that everything is routed through it. That's the easiest way to make sure everything is under control.

     
    Hi there i export my project as 'entire mix',  then import it into a new project to master, then when I master the stereo 2 track mix I export the mastered version as 'Track' (normally this is the first track 'audio',  is this wrong? should I have put the mastering on the master bus and then exported 'bus master' I know theres different ways to do things, but is my way wrong? (I want to do it the best way...)
     
    thanks for any help
    Learning more and more each day from this forum!!
     
    Nigel

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 05:19:26 (permalink)
    Your method is neither no more or no less valid than the many other combinations people come up with.

    I'm currently compiling an album which has the mastering chain inside the album project on the master bus.

    My individual songs all have a duplicate of the mastering chain on their master bus so I sort of get a feel for how it's going to sound on the album.

    When I export from the project, I simply bypass the master bus and export from the Main Outs with no dithering @ 32 bit with the 64 bit mix engine engaged.

    When I export form the album project, I dither down to 16 bit @ 44.1KHz for cd purposes, again from the Main outs.

    I  also export a 32 bit version - these 2, the 32 bit & 16 bit are my masters which are then copied to several locations for security.



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    dillyboy
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 05:43:47 (permalink)
    Cheers Bristol J
     
    At leastI know now I'm doing 'something' right!
     
    Nigel

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 06:28:52 (permalink)
    There are many good methods, of course.
    IMO, the main advantage of routing everything through Master Bus is the simplicity. You "automatically" avoid situations when some track, FX or soft synth "takes a short cut" and ends up exported in an unintended form or is missing from the final export.

    The less experienced you are, the more so. An experienced person, of course, develops methods that best suit his/her workflow and ideas of file storage etc. FX, tracks or soft synths missing (or not sounding right) from the exported file is one of the most common problem on these forums.

    I do usually a couple of bounce-to-track-mixes inside the project, and "master" and export those stereo tracks separately. Listening the tracks in different environments I decide, which approach is best for that project.

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 06:58:03 (permalink)
    The cleanest and most deterministic way is to bounce the output of a final bus, typically named master as it is in the normal template but it can be any other name of your choice. 

    For convenience we also allow the capability to output the "entire mix". When you choose "entire mix" internally the bounce process creates a "virtual master bus" and redirects the outputs of all the hardware mains to this. Then the virtual master is rendered. This essentially is summing SONAR's output to ALL hardware outputs. 

    Entire mix can be a useful shortcut sometimes when you don't have a master bus - e.g older projects created before bussing existed.  However you have to be careful that you don't have any duplicate signal paths sending to your hardware, or these signals will be summed into your mix, probably not something you want. A common reason why this might happen is if you have your project set up to send to headphone outs.
    Another common problem here is if you have adjusted the level of your hardware mains for listening purposes this gainstage will be included in the bounce which may not be what you want.

    So in short its better to manage this yourself by keeping a final bus and always rendering its output wen you want to bounce your project. 

    Noel Borthwick
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 07:29:48 (permalink)
    How I do it:

    I highlight all the tracks by double clicking on one of them... it might require several clicks. 

    Once they are all highlighted.... choose EXPORT AUDIO from the FILE dropdown menu.

    In the Export window that opens choose the destination location. I usually send to a folder marker EXPORTED FILES which is on my desktop. Makes finding it easy.

    In the window also be sure to choose the settings   16 or 24 bits and the sampling rate.... normally 44.1khz.   CD quality is 16/44.1

    I do one more step.... in the preset window field, I select WHAT YOU HEAR and click OK. 

    This has never failed to give me a song file that is exactly what I hear on playback every single time. 


    Using this method, if there is a track you do NOT want included simply mute that track or tracks and proceed as indicated above. 

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    #9
    konradh
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 10:01:26 (permalink)
    Maybe a dumb question, but if everything is routed to Master and you do the what-you-hear export, isn't that the same thing?  Just trying to get my mind clear.  Thanks.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 10:23:19 (permalink)
    Not necessarily.

    As Noel pointed out above - if you've got another set of outputs from your interface, feeding say a headphone amp (like I do) using Entire Mix will sum all outputs exposed by Sonar and you'll get a 3 dB boost for each stereo pair used.

    This bit me several years ago - I was tearing my hair out wondering why my exported project was clipping when re-importin into the same project.

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 10:25:23 (permalink)
    Not necessarily. Remember "Master" is just the name of a bus. If the user directly routes tracks to hardware outs (or other buses that do not route to Master) then what you hear will not be the same thing as Master. The "What you hear" preset is basically selecting the "entire mix" option which is everything sent to ALL outputs. 
    This is actually a common problem when users export and find the bounce sounding different from what they are hearing.

    Noel Borthwick
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    jrfrogers
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/07 12:08:41 (permalink)
    This helped me a lot. I didn't understand the "bounce settings, source category" choice at all. It's very clear now. Thanks very much.

    Hey Nigel - never been there but I love everything Irish - especially melodies!

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    dillyboy
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 07:04:58 (permalink)
    Hi again
     
    Last night I had mixed my song levels etc and was ready to master the 'exported' mix, when I was creating a new file to do it in I noticed the template for mastering (Sonar 8.5 sorry I know this is the X1 forum but I imagine most of you have used 8.5)  so I thought yeah why not see what it is like, so I opened it up and imported my mix and wow the result was great I then noticed that the Master bus had all the mastering effects LP-64 EQ LP-64 Multi Boost 11 and Analyst, I then exported it out but heres where I get lost, what exactly do I export out ie bus, entire mix, tracks, main outs etc and if I use the 'what you hear' tick box will I loose the compression/limiter effect that was applied.
     
    Also when i listened to the exported files (just for level purposes) on windows media player, I didn't seem to notice a awful lot of difference, could that be down to the fact that I had the levels near enough before the mastering took place?
     
    Any help would be appreciated as always.
     
    Nigel

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 07:11:57 (permalink)
    You use the Master Bus as export source, if you want all the FX in Master Bus to be exported, too.

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    dillyboy
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 08:01:17 (permalink)
    Hi
     
    Thanks for replying, I'll try that tonight, so do I use 'what you hear' or not? + is there any chance I may have done the mix not far off to start with, would that explain why I wasn't hearing an awful lot of difference in the exported mastered and non mastered versions?
     
    thanks
     
    sorry to be a pain in the neck!!

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 08:08:17 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    ]

    Not necessarily. Remember "Master" is just the name of a bus. If the user directly routes tracks to hardware outs (or other buses that do not route to Master) then what you hear will not be the same thing as Master. The "What you hear" preset is basically selecting the "entire mix" option which is everything sent to ALL outputs. 
    This is actually a common problem when users export and find the bounce sounding different from what they are hearing.

    yes.... there was a time early on when I did actually do this very thing.... I would route the bass direct to the soundcard bypassing the master.... I didn't want it treated by the FX in the master bin.... 


    I have since stopped this but continue to use the what you hear preset, and as a result, the mix I hear on playback is the mix I get in the wave. 




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    dlesaux
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 12:25:42 (permalink)
    This is a really interesting thread! I've also been using Entire Mix thinking it was the same as Master Bus but based on the discussion here, it's not. Now I want to go back and export all my recent mixes using the Master Bus option and listen for a difference.  Perhaps this should be emphasized a bit more in the manual?

    Peace!
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    jrfrogers
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 13:45:10 (permalink)
    dlesaux


    This is a really interesting thread! I've also been using Entire Mix thinking it was the same as Master Bus but based on the discussion here, it's not. Now I want to go back and export all my recent mixes using the Master Bus option and listen for a difference.  Perhaps this should be emphasized a bit more in the manual?

    If Noel catches this post I'd like to know if I'm understanding correctly:


    I think, if you had EVERYTHING routed to the Master Bus when you originally exported using Entire Mix with No Preset, and now you choose to export the Master Bus using No Preset, I think you'll get the same result.


    I think it's boiling down to, if you route everything to the Master Bus, it's very straight forward, just export the Master Bus. And we haven't mentioned yet but assumed we all know, the tracks you want included in the export must be selected.


    However, if you have some tracks routed to the Master Bus and others directly to the Main Outputs, and/or other Buses that do not route to the Master Bus, you would want to export using Entire Mix, with no preset.
    If you also choose the preset of "What you hear", routing to ALL hardware outputs, even ones you might not be thinking of, like outputs going to headphones or other monitors will be included and summed in the final output.

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Exporting a final mix 2012/03/08 15:18:29 (permalink)
    jrfrogers





    I think it's boiling down to, if you route everything to the Master Bus, it's very straight forward, just export the Master Bus. And we haven't mentioned yet but assumed we all know, the tracks you want included in the export must be selected.




    Alternatively: Just mute the tracks you don't want to export. Selecting nothing is the same as selecting everything.


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