External Inserts in Sonar (for the Faint of Heart)

 
 
  ive got lots of rack gear gathering dust.  at one time it was
so cool to have a big rack setup. i had (just for guitar) a 12
space rack full. still didnt get the sound i liked.
 
  i think it has to do with quality be it a real unit or a plugin.
i used to take stomp boxes and make racks for them. id take
the circuit board out and make a rack for it.
 
   in the end its all about sound quality though. the real qurk
is sometimes the appearance can make things seem "cool"
when i played live many guys sounded better than me with
just a simple amp and a few stomp boxes.
 
   id guess the same applies to recording too, its really
crazy how the minds perception works. ive got several
condencer mics. the ones i thought didnt sound very good
now do.
 
   what happens in a mix is sometimes everything competes
for a place in the mix and no matter how good the "unit"
is it cant do its thing be it a plug or hardware.
 
  i still like rack gear but there are a lot of units i would not have bought knowing what i know now. whatever it takes to sound good is really the answer. trying different things
 
  i do find myself going back to basics though

I have some outboard - FMR RNC, Biamp spring reverb, Deltalab Effectron II, Roland GP-16, lots of guitar stompboxes.

I have used these in SONAR even before External Input was added (using the RME TotalMix for patching), but S8's EI improvements make it the best way to integrate these things (along with S8, Vista x64, and other improvements combining to give me more stable low-latency performance).

Sometimes it's better than ITB effects, sometimes not. It's all a matter of experimentation and comparison. Face it - external devices can add only noise, distortions, phase shift, latency, and other non-linearities (beautiful accidents)...it's a matter of embracing these changes and deciding whether the euphonic coloration is an improvement.

   phillip

   Thanks Jimmy for responding.  You're absolutely right.

Yesterday I ordered the Axe-Fx-Ultra to help redeem my bad guitar playing.

I probably won't use this Axe-Fx-Ultra multi-effects box as an external insert very often ... but CPU and RAM constraints may make some of the lush reverbs tempting to obtain by the external insert mode.

(I see you as a studio guitar guru and veteran stage performer with a lot of music theory and experience; I myself have to hack, cut, paste, and retake alot as my own fingers just aren't so skillful.  Guitar Rig LE just hasn't been doing it for me of late.)

Lusher guitar tones is one goal I've envisioned. 

    You have a very good point. i never realized what its
like for someone who has limited capability to perform.
I was just speaking with james yoyo lately and mentioned
im tyred of my limits on guitar and ive got to do something
about it.

 he responded as if "what" "you are saying youve got
limits?  he also talked about what its like to sort of
hack at guitar plating. i want to be a better player
I guess no matter how good some of us are we still
want more.

   yea guitar rig (for me) dont cut it. i see guitar
players who have a guitar setup (sound) that sounds
great for one song. (picture live playing cover tunes)
yet sounds terable on another song.

  the next question might be which is more important
a good amp or a good guitar? i dont think its so much
a matter of brand name or type as much as "how a
guitar or amp responds  and how they are setup.

  this would apply to anything i guess including rack gear.
a guitar however is another story. ive got a strat and
tele's as well as other types guitars.

  nothing real lush or fancy or vintage. just guitars.
but you know? my main guitar started out as a cheap
ol tele copy. with cheap ol pickups.  i installed a middle
pickup and 5 way switch. i took a wood rasp to the neck
and whacked off lots of wood.

  it looked like a piece of ruff lumber.  with a lot of work
and sanding i got the shape i like. then i scalloped the
sides of the neck between the frets.. then i took a
jewelers file and rounded the ends of the frets.

   it has no finish on the back of the neck.  i played it
long enough to get the oil from my hands rubbed in
then sanded again with a very very fine sandpaper
about 1500 grit.

  if you can picture the back of the neck of a violin
thats how it looks and feels. Feel is probably one
of the most important things. Feel can be many
things too.

  feel can be

   responce
   tone
   perception
   physical and mental
   appearence
   character
   joy
   motivating
   and so many other things

   a teacher once told me that i would get to a
point where i would be so depentant on my (tone)
he was right. if it dont sound good i just go through
the motions. if it sounds great then i sometimes
wonder if its really me playing.

 how does one get good feel and tone? it can be
done very cheap sometimes. especialy for studio work.
one is the guitar i discribed above seems like ive
got about 150 dollars in it.

  amps? I think more about compression first. a guitar
can be a very dynamic instrument when it "peaks"
a lot it makes you hold back in playing because it
"hits you". however if you strike a note or chord
without it "slapping you" so to speak you tend
to play much better.

  (sounds like that applys to mixing too).
"Barley noticable" compresion that you can hardly
tell its there. guitar volume all the way up.
the lower the guitar volume the more highs you
loose.  (amp gain) set the drive to where it barely
distorts ( or doesnt)

    youll have to play between the master and gain
to do that.   the point is with a high gain its another
form of compression too. 

   gosh there are so many things a person can do
with so little stuff.  if we look at a guitar for example
we see "what happens"

  lets say we crank the highs on the amp because the
wound strings are so muddy and "uncrisp"  ok wow
now the low strings sound so "sweet" you hit the
high E string about it about tears your head off.

  now thats a bummer.  thats"what happens"
now we know "what happens" but we are left
with no way to (now) "warm up the high strings"
thats where you get "creative"

  a comp with a side chain eq does fair for this.
crank the eqs highs  and drop all the eqs lows
and it will only comp on the high strings.

   however this methode is more of a bandaid
than the result we really want.  i once tryed
running the guitar through a crossover and used
2  comps after the crossover. and eq also (one for
the highs and one for the lows).

   that was an awsome and beautifull sound. im not 
doing that now though untill i can find a more compact
way of doing that. (thats at least 3 rack spaces just
for that alone.

 im looking for info so i can build my own system for that.
i guess the thing is with enough rack gear and creativity
one can do just about anything with a creative mindset.

   But man carying around a rack about the size of
a refrigerater gets old. its fun to look at it though
with all the different colored blinking lights.

   most other guys around here use a big "floor setup"
all these stomp boxes and stuff. i instead use just a
midi floor controller where it not only turns on a given
device but totaly changes the whole rack setup
at the hit of one button.

  i say all this because even with some basic stuff
you can still do great things. your guitar and amp dont
have to be "high dollar"  but it does have to "excite"
you with its feel and tone.

  i think someone who calls themselves a very poor
guitar player might be surpized when you hear
yourself under the right condition. i dont know
for sure about that though without research.

   youve really got me thinking though. hopefully i can
come up with some things that can help.  im learning
a lot just by writing these words.  thanks phillip





    

 

I don't know if I will be going the way you are going, but ultimately as my studio grows, I will be getting a whole range of of channel inserts.

Right now, I have been dreaming of the new Rupert Neve line, which by all reports are exceptional.

http://rupertneve.com/products/