ston

Bristol_Jonesey
Problem there ston?

Grudamnit!
 
/picards
 

 
This forum software sometimes...  I spent about 20 minutes trying to post that this morning.  The post just wasn't there even after restarting the browser, refreshing the page etc.  I return just now this afternoon to try again and there's now a gazillion posts.  I'll try to reduce the clutter...
 
...clutter now reduced! :|^)

The duplicate issue is a pretty weird one I've never seen anywhere else but I figured out how to avoid it. If you hit the "Submit Post" button and nothing happens don't press it again. Eventually the post will either stick or you'll get "An Error Occurred" pop up (which can take a few minutes to appear). If the error pop up happens then the post won't show up so you can hit the button again without getting a dupe. If not and you keep hitting the button it's dupe city. That's how I avoided getting a million dupes yesterday morning when the forum was being an arse. Guess they're doing some maintenance or maybe someone's trying to hack/ddos the site or something.
 
Still... this forum software is some weird shiz, mang. :-/

Beeps,
 
Totally understand where you're coming from on all counts. One thing to keep in mind here....all the stuff you have in Sonar is enough to get you good results. The weakest link in the chain (in my opinion) is Session Drummer but even there, I came up with some pretty decent sounds. But the guitar stuff (between TH2 and Guitar Rig) you should be able to get some really good tones. If you don't have a bass, the SI bass module in Sonar is so under-rated....it's a killer program in my opinion that can be made to sound pretty realistic.
 
I think the biggest issue you are having is identification on certain sound aspects. Like....you know what a good tone sounds like when you hear it on another recording yet you yourself might not know how to achieve it. I had that problem for about 10 years or so. Sometimes I did well, other times I was too bass heavy on stuff or too high-endy. Monitor environment is the key though. I know you know this and I'm sorry to keep on saying it. I also know it's not something you can fix right now. But when you do, I sincerely think things are going to fall in place nicely for you. Right now you're second guessing. This field is the most frustrating of all when you're in a second guess situation.
 
I remember the days going out to my car with a pen and paper writing down all the things that needed to be fixed. I'd take the fix list back into the studio and try to remix the tune. Then I'd be faced with "Hmmm, why can't I hear the things I wrote down in here? This mix sounds fine to me. Maybe my car speakers are the wrong ones?" Chances are...your car speakers aren't wrong....MOST times a car is fitted with speakers and a system that compliments the interior of the vehicle. The speakers they put in the package tray are usually chosen for a reason. Sure, some car systems suck...but just about always, when something sounds really good in a car, it sounds good everywhere.
 
I've always had decent systems in my vehicles. The only material that never sounded good in them....yep...was my material. LOL! But getting back to what I was saying before, you should have no problems getting something better than decent using the Sonar tools that come stock. I have a few little demo things I can share if you need me to where I used some beta versions of the plugs I test...but the majority of the stuff is always straight Sonar.
 
I like trying to be the underdog and it challenges me to get decent sound using stock gear and Realtek soundcards etc. I have good stuff at my house, but for some odd reason, I don't use it often. Most of the beta work I do is all done at home so it doesn't go on the big recording boxes at my house or my studio. This leaves me spending more time with ideas that use Realtek, ASIO4ALL, Logitech pc speakers and the sub that goes with them, and none of my really good stuff. The really good stuff heats my entire room. LMAO!! I'm serious man....I don't even need a heater on in my little man cave. My big recording pc idles at like 105 degrees without a load on it. I hate sweating when I work...and like I said, the beta work I do needs lots of time and doesn't go on my main recording rig so I barely use my good stuff at home.
 
So I've accumulated quite a few little tunes that are just me being a bedroom guy like everyone else. I like it because it allows me to be in the realm of those experiencing problems. I don't use anything special other than my Mackie 32x8 console just to get my sounds into Sonar. The pre's are nothing to brag about and I don't use any board eq at all. I just use the board to send signal at -6 dB into my 1/8 line in on the Realtek and then do everything ITB. It's cool doing things this way really and I actually enjoy it as much as when I use my real stuff. But honest when I tell you, my good monitors and soundcards/converters/pre's barely get used at my house. And I get nearly the same results other than the Realtek is limited to 16/44 and isn't the best card to record with.
 
My point in this is...don't stress about not having killer gear. You seriously do not need it other than a good listening realm. For example, and I'm serious when I say this, if you got a Logitech rig like mine (X530 with 4 monitors and the sub...you don't have to run it in Surround) for $79.....I'm really blown away by how good this little system sounds. I have the sub turned all the way down on it and then use the Realtek EQ to take out -4 dB of 31 Hz or something....and these things honestly sound as good as any monitor I have. When I DO use my Adams or NS 10's here, then flip to the Logitech's, the only difference is the Logitech's have just a little more bass going on...but it's good bass that doesn't sound loose....so I just leave them alone. I was running an instance of Sonitus on my master bus just to curb the low end a little more but found myself mixing through the Logitech's a little bass heavy. So now I leave them alone. But honest, something like that may even help you. I know that sounds counter-productive to even suggest something like that...but when something works, something works. We liked these Logitech's so much, we bought a set for the real studio just so we can monitor in a consumer environment. It's so funny when we play things through them and people look at us and say "really? Those are Logitech pc speakers...c'mon, stop it?!"
 
So maybe something like that may be helpful. I can tell you this, I made major gains when I stopped using headphones. I know some people are limited due to apartment situations but man...though I love my AKG 240 DF cans and can actually mix really well through them, I'm better off using these Logitech's because they really do translate quite well once you control the low end.
 
Anyway, let's get back to sound identity. I think that's what you need brother. I remember a mentor of mine sitting me down and teaching me compression. He'd fire up an instrument and compress it telling me what the ratio was....how much gain was taken out etc. He'd show me too much, too little and just the right amount of compression. This taught me what to listen for. We did the same thing with guitar tones and this was super helpful to me. All I knew was good live tones...which in theory isn't quite true either at the time. When you tweak a tone for playing live, 9 out of 10 times you add too much bass because you make it thick and full. The soundman is right on you high passing 120 Hz or lower depending on what you send out. 
 
This is where my mentor helped me. He made me bring my amp and dial in tones. He then showed me what was wrong with them. How to listen for the blanket of low end that makes your sound buried.....how to tell if there is too much "honky" mids that turn into congested mids....which also bury you.....how to tell if you have too much sizzle....what the difference between good sizzle and bad sizzle is. All this stuff is just amazing and is essential in my opinion. The cool thing about it is...it's not teaching you a good tone and a bad tone. It teaches you what elements make up a good or bad tone. You can have a tone that may not be a great tone....but it might not have blatant errors that make it terrible either, ya know what I mean?
 
Sort of like the girl you see on the street that a friend says is hot, yet you say "yeah, well she is attractive but not really my type." You know how that goes....tones are sort of like that. We can have a tone that is dialed in nice without blatant issues....but it may not be for everyone due to timbre or personal preference. This is why I told you before that I didn't really want to comment on guitar tones because they are so subjective. However, in your case, some of the issues in my opinion aren't really subjective. I'd not comment on something simply "because I don't like it". I only comment on issues that you may want to at least look into because I know we all hear things differently. 
 
But don't worry about having any fancy gear. You just keep on doing what you're doing and try not to rely too much on that Sonar graph in the eq. This can really create problems for people if they don't know how to use it. I'll leave you with this...
 
I have seen some of the most incredible eq curves of all time. Some of them sounded so bad, I had a hard time understanding how something so gorgeous could be so wrong. Kind of like this hot chick I hung out with the other night....she let out a little broccoli "fsssst" (gas lol) and I just couldn't for the life of me....fathom how something so incredibly beautiful could smell worse than Oscar the Grouch. LMAO!
 
I've also seen some of the worst eq's of all time...and some how, the song sounded fantastic. So my point is...try not to ever allow a graph to make a decision for you. You have to trust your ears. The graph thing can help if you are having a problem with something...but even there, you have to know what problem you are looking for. You don't just look at the graph, see a spike at 330 and remove 330 until the spike is gone. That spike may happen one time and may never come back in the mix, see what I mean? Some graphs "hold" and freeze themselves. So right away, people look at the frozen chart and think they need to fix the areas that may LOOK wrong.
 
In the wrong hands, these things can be the death of us. So always be careful when using any sort of analyzer. The chart thing with the note frequencies is a good one...but even there, you have to be careful because it's too easy to ruin something using a chart like that. Just because something has a note/frequency value, doesn't mean THAT frequency is the problem. For example, if A 440 is something you're tweaking....what if the sound doesn't have a lot of 440 Hz in it? What if the sound is super thin from the start and isn't accentuating 440? Right away guys think they need to mess with that. You have to know where the problem is before you "just mess" with anything. So stuff like this can send you on a wild goose chase if you allow it to. I'm not saying don't use analyzers or tone charts. I'm saying be extra careful with them and don't ever rely on them or you could do more harm than good.
 
Anyway...hopefully this sorts things out a bit for you. I'm trying to think of a way for me to teach you some of this "identity" stuff. I may have to create a little identification video for you that may help you out a bit. Time is not on my side these days though...but I'll see what I can come up with that might be a bit more helpful. :) Keep doing what you're doing brother....you'll get where you need to be. :)
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi
Kind of like this hot chick I hung out with the other night....she let out a little broccoli "fsssst" (gas lol) and I just couldn't for the life of me....fathom how something so incredibly beautiful could smell worse than Oscar the Grouch. LMAO!

LOL! I think we've all been there...a couple of years ago I spent the night with the most beautiful girl that I met online....and as I lay awake next to her for most of the night in one of my famous bouts of insomnia, she would *parp* like once every minute or so, and by 4am I'd learned an important lesson about looks not being all they're cracked up to be :)