BassRocket
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Fade Out's Not Working!
Hi me again...
When trying to control a clip's ending volume, I've used both the automation (green line) method AND the Fade Out function with the Smart Tool triangle that lets you drag the amount of clip fade out.
Problem is, the Smart Tool triangle method (which I like and use the most) is SOMETIMES not being read. The clip volume stays the same and does not decrease with the fade curve.
Also, when using both Automation and clip fades within the same track, I'm not sure if one is overruling the other?
What am I overlooking?
Thanks!
Oh Edit!
I'm also using Melodyne 4 on the track! It's a vocal that's been pitch altered. Does Melodyne need "fading" as well as the clip in SONAR??? Though, it seems like I've had this problem on other tracks without Melodyne as well.
"War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate" -Marvin Gaye New System: MSI SLI Plus X299 mortherboard Intel Core i7 7820X CPU 16GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3200 RAM MSI Radeon RX580 4GB Graphics Samsung 960 Pro M.2 SSD (Win 10 Pro) Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD (storage) WD Velociraptor 1TB HDD (storage) Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett audio interface Akai MPK261 midi controller Sonar Platinum, Bitwig Studio, Cubase Artist 9.5
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Zargg
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 08:40:49
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Hi. Try to bounce the (Melodyne) clip to it self, before editing fades. Might be worth a try.
All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 12:35:37
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Ken is right.
Your problem is probably because you need to use "bounce to clips"
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pwalpwal
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 12:47:45
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imo, sonar should either do that bounce automatically, or not allow functions that won't work unless something else is done first, or at least notify the user possibly via a "toast" msg ("apply changes first?" type thing)
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 13:35:53
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pwalpwal
imo, sonar should either do that bounce automatically, or not allow functions that won't work unless something else is done first, or at least notify the user possibly via a "toast" msg ("apply changes first?" type thing)
I can understand where your coming from because some people don't want to render their edits (head scratcher to me personally), but you can apply changes (fades) before or after Region FX. You just cant do it in the middle of a Region FX process.
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BassRocket
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 17:21:35
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Hi guys...
I'm really having trouble with this.
I've been doing fine, up to this point. I don't understand what I've done to disable my ability to use fades, but it's not working.
I watched the video Chuckebaby put up, (Thanks Chuckebaby!) I selected the clip, right clicked and chose Region Effects, (Though I don't understand what kind of editing I could do in Melodyne to control fading or volume) then right clicked and chose Bounce to Clips. But nothing. My original fade curve disappeared. The Clip Title now says "Melodyne" instead of Record. So I drew a new fade curve and still the clips volume remains the same throughout, ignoring the fade cure.
I guess I don't understand the "rendering" process, or how and what it's used for.
Why do I need to render clips?
"War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate" -Marvin Gaye New System: MSI SLI Plus X299 mortherboard Intel Core i7 7820X CPU 16GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3200 RAM MSI Radeon RX580 4GB Graphics Samsung 960 Pro M.2 SSD (Win 10 Pro) Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD (storage) WD Velociraptor 1TB HDD (storage) Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett audio interface Akai MPK261 midi controller Sonar Platinum, Bitwig Studio, Cubase Artist 9.5
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BassRocket
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 17:28:32
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Oh...
One thing I noticed is that my clips no longer have the wide bar at the top of the clip anymore. The titles are still there, but the ("header"?) at the top of the clips are gone. ALL of them in the song.
Does that indicate a particular state SONAR is in?
Thanks again!
"War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate" -Marvin Gaye New System: MSI SLI Plus X299 mortherboard Intel Core i7 7820X CPU 16GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3200 RAM MSI Radeon RX580 4GB Graphics Samsung 960 Pro M.2 SSD (Win 10 Pro) Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD (storage) WD Velociraptor 1TB HDD (storage) Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett audio interface Akai MPK261 midi controller Sonar Platinum, Bitwig Studio, Cubase Artist 9.5
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/02 19:17:42
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you may have accidentally turned off the header:
To globally hide the clip headers, click the Track View menu, point to Display, and select Maximize Waveform Height. When this options is enabled, the waveform display spans the full height of clips.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 12:41:55
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Some good points, chuckebaby
you may have accidentally turned off the header:
Thanks for that Chuck, I always wondered where my header went, but preferred not seeing it so never posted question, but is there some functionality Im losing within the header by not displaying it? Also to OP, Ive been noticing in recent project that fading didn't seem to be working, and ended up using volume automation instead. (Im still on 2017.06 update) Regarding Melodyne region-fx, while I would normally do what I need to and then render clip, I can seeing leaving things un-rendered for some time until certain applied editing is committed to, amongst various clips and tracks. To that end I would also say or ask for a Sonar feature that you could quickly check project to see if you have inadvertently left a region-fx open somewhere amongst all the tracks and small clips. Lastly, I guess this should be directed to Melodyne people but always wondered why they dont have a fade tool to apply to a selected "blob" rather than just only the full volume tool. Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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Anderton
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 15:02:03
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/09/03 15:35:15
BassRocket
I selected the clip, right clicked and chose Region Effects, (Though I don't understand what kind of editing I could do in Melodyne to control fading or volume) then right clicked and chose Bounce to Clips. But nothing. My original fade curve disappeared. Bouncing to a clip makes all edits permanent. IF you have a fade, the curve will go away because the clip will now incorporate the fade. If you have an FX Bin in the clip and render, the FX will become incorporated in the clip and the FX bin will go away. I guess I don't understand the "rendering" process, or how and what it's used for.
Why do I need to render clips? If you apply changes to a clip that aren't permanent, all those changes are stored in RAM because you need to be able to undo them, and go back to the original file. Rendering makes the changes permanent, which frees up RAM and also makes the computer not have to work as hard. People who leave a lot of Melodyne clips unrendered are basically stressing out the computer more. Whether this causes problems or not depends on the project complexity, the computer speed, and amount of available memory. This is why some people work on copies with Melodyne--they can render the Melodyne clip, but always return to the original if they change their mind.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 17:16:59
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Anderton
If you apply changes to a clip that aren't permanent, all those changes are stored in RAM
Also, it may be of note, Melodyne also saves polyphonic process data to files under your username, My Documents/Celemony/Separations folder, so the un-rendered/unbounced data is available when you re-open a project you saved with un-rendered Melodyne clips. However it saves data there regardless if rendered or not, and these files accumulate over time, I managed to recover over 10Gig of SSD space at one time by deleting these files, as I didn't have any projects with un-rendered Melodyne Region-FX data I needed to return to. Cheers (Dear John, the separation folder contains data that is needed by the polyphonic algorithms in Melodyne. But if Melodyne can not find this data if a project is loaded, it will create it automatically again. So in other words: you can delete the content of this folder, but it will be populated again after each loading of projects using the data stored in here. Best regards Tom BratkaCelemony Support)
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 17:24:04
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JohnEgan
IMelodyne also saves polyphonic process data to files under your username,
My Documents/Celemony/Separations folder, so the un-rendered/unbounced data is available when you re-open a project you saved with un-rendered Melodyne clips. However it saves data there regardless if rendered or not, and these files accumulate over time, I managed to recover over 10Gig of SSD space at one time by deleting these files, as I didn't have any projects with un-rendered Melodyne Region-FX data I needed to return to.
Wow, I cant believe I have never noticed that before. I had almost 2 GB in that folder. Good tip John. thanks. Also good tip from Mr. Anderton on the RAM usage.
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Anderton
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 17:39:41
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chuckebaby
Wow, I cant believe I have never noticed that before. I had almost 2 GB in that folder.
Good tip John. thanks.
I never knew that either!! What a great tip. Next time I'm at my music computer, this will probably free up a terabyte of disk space 
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JohnEgan
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 17:48:39
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Yeh thanks, this was other note from Celemony, I think I had over 20gig, at one time, and did it again sometime later had 10 gig
Dear John,
if you work with bounces, you don’t need the files created by Melodyne in Sonar. I would recommend to do a backup of the project, that you can store on another hard drive by simply copying the complete project folder. After that you can copy the project folder and use the option “Clean Audio Folder…” in Sonar’s Utility menu.
After that the folder should just contain the bounced data and the rest of the files that are needed in the project.
Best regards
Tom Bratka
Celemony Support
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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mettelus
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 18:03:28
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Unbounced Melodyne clips are also stored in the cwp file, which is where that folder gets recreated from. For many who see cwp files grow suddenly in size, this is one of a few reasons why.
Melodyne also let's you specify the location of the Separations folder in its preferences. You can either use that or a directory junction if it is threatening SSD capacity.
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Anderton
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/03 19:03:24
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mettelus
Unbounced Melodyne clips are also stored in the cwp file, which is where that folder gets recreated from. For many who see cwp files grow suddenly in size, this is one of a few reasons why.
Melodyne also let's you specify the location of the Separations folder in its preferences. You can either use that or a directory junction if it is threatening SSD capacity.
Another great tip! Thanks.
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BassRocket
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/08 04:12:58
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WOW!
What a great thread this has turned into!
So many great tips!!! Thanks for the valuable Melodyne lesson, Mr. Anderton and everyone!
Okay, So is the FX Rack in the fader strips, the same as the FX Bin?
And you're saying if I leave clips "open" they take up PC resources? Meaning they haven't been "rendered" by Melodyne?
So... I have to run Melodyne on ALL the clips that have an effect in their corresponding FX Rack?
Is that correct? Just really trying to understand.
I've recorded about 6 or 7 songs so far and I'm just now learning about Melodyne! And ONLY because we did our first vocals!
Thanks again everyone!
"War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate" -Marvin Gaye New System: MSI SLI Plus X299 mortherboard Intel Core i7 7820X CPU 16GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3200 RAM MSI Radeon RX580 4GB Graphics Samsung 960 Pro M.2 SSD (Win 10 Pro) Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD (storage) WD Velociraptor 1TB HDD (storage) Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett audio interface Akai MPK261 midi controller Sonar Platinum, Bitwig Studio, Cubase Artist 9.5
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/09 11:33:22
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Leee
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/09 13:25:15
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I think I might be having trouble understanding the terminology used in this thread.
If I use Melodyne Studio applied to entire vocal track, I'll "Freeze" the track after fixing all the tuning and timing in Melodyne.
People are talking about "bouncing to track(s)" as a permanent thing, where you can't make any changes after the bounce. But when I Freeze a track (any track, vocals or instruments) to cut down on CPU usage, I can always unfreeze the track to make any additional changes. Then re-freeze it.
I'm guessing "Bounce to track" is different than "freezing", even though freezing is basically taking a MIDI track and bouncing it to an audio track, or in the case of Melodyne, freezing is just bouncing the existing vocal track to another file (basically a hidden audio track).
Does that make any sense? There is a difference between the two processes. But I'm wondering why nobody mentioned freezing a Melodyne track instead of bouncing to new track? Freezing cuts down on CPU usage and is easily undoable. Am I missing something?
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/09 13:59:33
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Leee
I think I might be having trouble understanding the terminology used in this thread.
People are talking about "bouncing to track(s)" as a permanent thing,
Yes their may be some terminology confusion.... Its Bounce to clips, not Bounce to tracks (they are 2 totally different process) One takes 30 seconds, the other takes 0.3 seconds. Leee
I can always unfreeze the track to make any additional changes. Then re-freeze it.
What are the advantages of freezing a Melodyne clip VS. rendering it ? I cant make those same changes within seconds instead of unfreezing the clip, refreezing the clip.
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BassRocket
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Re: Fade Out's Not Working!
2017/09/09 16:58:44
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You guys rock!
In the Sonar documentation (which IS pretty amazing, they don't really go into the overall, big picture of how Sonar deals with things. They say how, but not why. So, I'm left with partial knowledge about alot of subjects.
So, to summarize...
-Region FX lets you access Melodyne.
-Once you use ANY Region FX, you need to "render" it. True?
-Once a clip has been "rendered" you need to Bounce it to Clips in order to relieve the PC of having to process the clip in real time. True?
-Once you've Bounced it to Clips, you need to either Delete or Freeze the original, non-Bounced Melodyne-ized clip.
True?
Thanks again people!
"War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate" -Marvin Gaye New System: MSI SLI Plus X299 mortherboard Intel Core i7 7820X CPU 16GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3200 RAM MSI Radeon RX580 4GB Graphics Samsung 960 Pro M.2 SSD (Win 10 Pro) Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD (storage) WD Velociraptor 1TB HDD (storage) Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett audio interface Akai MPK261 midi controller Sonar Platinum, Bitwig Studio, Cubase Artist 9.5
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