Fades To Black - Too grim?

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Lynn
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2014/09/24 14:43:22 (permalink)

Fades To Black - Too grim?

This is a song that I recorded several years ago with my former band WIFE.  I remixed it in X3e using tools that I didn't have available at the time.  The subject matter is pretty grim, dealing with postpartum depression, so be warned.  Is it too grim to be seen as a work of art?  At the time, this was a national topic, and I was curious how this could happen, hence, the song.
 
Usually, I work alone, but I had help with this:
Karyl Wilson-lead vocal
Roger Fife-bass gtr.
Rich Reavis-wailing gtr (panned in the center)
Me- harmony vocal and rhythm gtr, and lyrics and music
 
I'm curious to know what you think about any aspect of this recording.  Thanks in advance for your time.
It can be found here: http://www.soundclick.com...&q=hi&newref=1

All the best,
Lynn

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/24 14:53:32 (permalink)
    Nice work.  Sounds really good to me.
     
    As far as the topic..... nope, it's not too far out. It's something that's very real.
     
    Rock is all about taking on the difficult topics. IMHO.....
     
    nice work.... did I mention that?

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    #2
    thegaltieribrothers
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/24 16:08:28 (permalink)
    A good distinctive sound, icy song and great mix - good job!
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    Wookiee
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/25 10:18:13 (permalink)
    That end is good, all in all sounds like you have very good track to me Lynn.
     
    Thanks for sharing

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    drma173
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/25 12:53:44 (permalink)
    I like the Riffs bass notes. Hows Xe im using still sonar 6.
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    Guitarpima
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/25 15:46:29 (permalink)
    I love the mix and the song. Definitely a rough topic but as GH said, it's real and a difficult subject. I ought to know. I have a hard time writing something that's not a dark subject.
     
    Excellent work!!!

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    dcumpian
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/25 19:24:50 (permalink)
    I think it's fine Lynn. Really good mix there. Reminds me of some of the New Wave stuff that was around during the 80's. Rock on brother!
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     

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    #7
    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/25 19:35:00 (permalink)
    To Herb, G-bros, Wookie, Tony, Robert, and Dan thanks for your time and kind words.  You've all influenced me in one way or another over the last few years.  Though, I have a long ways to go, I feel that my mixing skills have taken an upswing due to the good advice from those at this forum.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    kennywtelejazz
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 01:32:20 (permalink)
    Lynn
    Though, I have a long ways to go, I feel that my mixing skills have taken an upswing due to the good advice from those at this forum.




    Yeah Lynn,
    you have been doing some real fine mixes 
    the song was very well done ,
    I had to listen close to the words to get the message behind the song ….
    if I didn't listen close to the words I would have thought that I was listening to a party song ...
    tough topic to tackle ….,good music for sure  
     
    Kenny 

                       
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    shawn@trustmedia.tv
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 04:31:26 (permalink)
    I'm sorry but it was too grim for me and it felt very 1st person witness perspective I felt sick about half way throu Lynn I'm sorry it distrubed me...very well produced.
     
    the other side of grim... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203985980908376&set=a.1105318631692.2017809.1188546956&type=1&theater

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    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 12:21:52 (permalink)
    Kenny, thanks for your comments.  One note - when submitting his guitar track for this tune, my friend Rich played major chords against a minor progression.  I left it as is because I didn't want the main verse progression to be too dark, especially played against the two bridges.
     
    Shawn, you need not apologize for being disturbed about this subject.  That's why I was hesitant to print the lyrics.  Thanks for your response (I want it to be, at least, a little disturbing to the listener).

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    AT
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 12:40:23 (permalink)
    No topic is off topic.
     
    Nice production.  Great bass - well played and mixed.  The rest of is up to snuff.
     
    I'd drop the sticks a few dB.  And add a few dBs to the vocals coming in to make them clearer.
     
    Great song dealing honestly w/ a tough topic.
     
    @

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    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 18:16:18 (permalink)
    AT, thanks for your comments.  Your suggestions are good, and I will take them into account on the next pass.  Good ears!

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    drma173
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/26 19:08:33 (permalink)
    Lynn
    To Herb, G-bros, Wookie, Tony, Robert, and Dan thanks for your time and kind words.  You've all influenced me in one way or another over the last few years.  Though, I have a long ways to go, I feel that my mixing skills have taken an upswing due to the good advice from those at this forum.


    No prob Lynn great work man
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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/27 08:52:12 (permalink)
    Interesting way to tackle the subject, the feel is almost quirky new-wave (brought to mind the B-52's). The only thing I would change about the mix is the guitar way over on the right, that was quite distracting and seemed disconnected from the rest, maybe pull that in and soften it down a touch?

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    Rimshot
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/27 10:50:26 (permalink)
    I think you did a good job on the melody and playing, production and mix.  From a producer's perspective, I feel the power of the lyrics and the sad story being told is not reflective in the style of the song.  As someone pointed out earlier, if not for reading the lyrics, the song takes on a whole other perspective. 
    Anyway, good job on this endeavor!

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    bapu
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/27 15:34:04 (permalink)
    My mayte Jaymes has the right of it (pun in ten did) about the guitar.
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    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/28 13:19:18 (permalink)
    jamesg1213
    Interesting way to tackle the subject, the feel is almost quirky new-wave (brought to mind the B-52's). The only thing I would change about the mix is the guitar way over on the right, that was quite distracting and seemed disconnected from the rest, maybe pull that in and soften it down a touch?


    bapu
    My mayte Jaymes has the right of it (pun in ten did) about the guitar.


    Thanks for your replies.  Now that you mention it, I hear it that way, too.  Your suggestions are good and will be incorporated in the next mix.  Good catch!

    Rimshot (Jimmy), I know what you mean.  Had I changed those background chords to Gm and Cm, it would have sounded much darker.  However, I was looking for a contrast between the verses and the bridges for a bit more impact.  It's kind of like:  should I have added salt or sugar to the mix?  (or bitters)  Thanks for your input.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/28 17:42:02 (permalink)
    Hi Lynn sorry I haven't had a chance to listen to this to today (I've been busy doing new composition for PHD proposal :) )
     
    Now there is no such thing as too grim within art, even in popular art (if that even exists anymore, I think we have mass culture these days).  It sounds like late 70's rock just after punk, touches of Ramones.  So don't censor yourself, you don't want to be ****en Justin Beiber...maybe you do LoL, maybe try the haircut first then the bad attitude.  I wouldn't mind the bad attitude actually if he actually had talent, heck everyone knows my bad attitude.  Sorry digressing. 
     
    I like it, I thought the snare was a little thin a first but after a second listen, it's within range.  Guitar's are fine, no rules :) one or two instruments need to be at the forefront, when will people realise that mixing is painting not science. I was thinking raise the vocal slightly but then I think the mix would be too loud, there was a section in the middle that pushed that, try compressing final mix at that a bit more and when mastering hover over that section to get that compression right.
     
    Hmm the vocoder, wow it sounds like such an ancient relic these days, I liked it but I also didn't hmm I can't explain.  These days I use melodyne and VVocal for my robot voices, it represents the modern, better I think.  On saying that this is 70's thrash punk on the cusp on 1980, so yea you see what I mean.  Maybe try a remix and try and modernise the sounds of the track.  Cut it up slightly and use a combination of robo voice techniques (robot harmony, something I'm experimenting with).  I was going to suggest just the robo voice and nothing else as an intro, but on a third listen I realise you've done that, maybe a longer intro, ala a dancey sort of remix.  Emphasise the really grim aspects, and use Reaper's varispeed to slow it down to give it a space drug death feel.  Nothing too hardcore but just enough to feel it.  Hmm, I hope I haven't been too picky.  I guess what I am suggesting is keep this version because it's excellent, maybe raise the harmony vocals, I want them to be clear.  But do a dance remix because it already has that feel.  Oh I loved the ending, I thought something was wrong, then I realized you were being literal lol.
     
    Ben    

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    markno999
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/29 14:39:58 (permalink)
    Lynn,
     
    Great production.   I don't think your topic is too grim, however, I don't think the words match the musical style.  I was waiting for Fred Schneider to say "Rock Lobster".    Musically it sounds like a feel good party song.  Even knowing the words, it still didn't connect for me because I "felt good" listening to it.   I hope this is useful.  
     
    It is a really good song, If it were my song, I might consider altering some of the words to make it a feel better song, and make a more depressing song chordally and rhythmically to capture the postpartum depression topic.   Nice work.   I like the song a lot....
     
    Regards
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    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/29 15:02:50 (permalink)
    Ben, thanks for the super response.  You've put forth a lot of ideas which makes me wish that you had been here when I first recorded this.  I'll try to cut through to the gist.  As for the vocorder, it's actually samples that came with the version of CW that I recorded this (I think, maybe, S5), so I can't really redo them per se.  Your thoughts on the vocals make sense, to me.  Those changes I can make.  As for the rest, they're intriguing ideas, though, this song will probably get only a modest remake in the end.  I can tell you're on a whole other level than I am in regards to production techniques, but I'm here to learn, and you've started the wheels turning for me.  Thanks a ton, Ben!

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    polarbear
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/29 15:43:08 (permalink)
    I don't think there is any topic too dark/grim for art. I also think its a really great song! At first I wasn't really feeling the mix on the intro with the distorted voice and drums to be honest, but as soon as everything else came in with the bass and guitar and the vocals came in, I really love it. It's such a cool song. 

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/29 21:05:23 (permalink)
    Lynn
    Ben, thanks for the super response.  You've put forth a lot of ideas which makes me wish that you had been here when I first recorded this.  I'll try to cut through to the gist.  As for the vocorder, it's actually samples that came with the version of CW that I recorded this (I think, maybe, S5), so I can't really redo them per se.  Your thoughts on the vocals make sense, to me.  Those changes I can make.  As for the rest, they're intriguing ideas, though, this song will probably get only a modest remake in the end.  I can tell you're on a whole other level than I am in regards to production techniques, but I'm here to learn, and you've started the wheels turning for me.  Thanks a ton, Ben!


    No I'm just a fool Lynn re:production techniques I spend too much time alone, so all I have is my machines...lol.  Any questions you may have re:production just email me, I will PM it to you if you want it, I've helped out Stuart (he hasn't been around for a while) and I'd be happy to help out you.  Maybe if you want some ideas for tracks you are doing you can send me some rough's and I can offer, and offer is the word some tips.  But the offer is there.
     
    Ben 

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    Freddy J
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/09/30 17:11:42 (permalink)
    Wow, excellent song!  I love the new wave sound of this.  There is a sense of urgency to this song that really complements the lyrics.  I really like the bass lines as I do that guitar line (panned Left).  They both really carry the song along while the rest of the instrumentation provides nice accents to the lyrics.  I am not very sophisticated in my mixing and mastering or even in my music in general but I think that this number sounds great just as is.  Most of the early new wavy stuff was a little bit rough --- which in MHO was its charm.  Would too much "engineering" take away from the feel of the topic and lyrics of the song (rhetorical question)?
     
    I appreciate the topic and lyrics of this song.  No I don't believe music will cause world peace but I do appreciate that music can provide the opportunity for thought and reflection.  You have done that in this song.
    #24
    evadianepug
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 09:46:47 (permalink)
    Wild tune!  Like AT said, everything is on the table in music.  Grim, yeah, but how grim is the subject?  The music conveyed the theme perfectly.  Wow the bathtub line almost made me cry.  My Grandkids (I babysit 4 days a week) will be here in just a bit and I know that it's God's grace (my opinion, no salvos please) that keeps us from crossing that line.  Mixed well, played well and sung well.  Scary but it's a scary subject.  Hey, Lynn have you ever posted this before?  That whole bathtub line sounds so familiar.  Great work, buddy!

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    #25
    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 11:50:38 (permalink)
    Polarbear (David), thanks for you kind words.  Very much appreciated.
     
    Ben, I appreciate your generous offer.  It goes both ways!
     
    Freddy, thank you so much for your time.  Your words help validate this for me.
     
    Warren, yes I did post this about 5 years ago before I started hanging out here much.  It's really come a long ways since then.  I've often thought about doing a video for this, but the bathtub scene might be too much for even me to handle.  What do you think?

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    #26
    evadianepug
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 12:03:14 (permalink)
    It would have to be an implied scene.  I don't know that anyone (well some could) could watch that.  You know, show the bathroom, her acting leads you to understand what she is going to do , etc.  However, I don't know that a video is the best way to go.  I can't offer any real help on whether you should do that or not.  I'm sure you would do it tastefully.  I knew that bathtub thing was up here before.  It affected me then as it does now.   I don't remember a lot about it then (I think I might have said I didn't like the subject matter) but if memory serves, the music and production is much better now.  That can solve a lot of problems!  Good luck with what ever decision you make, buddy!

     Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed. (GK Chesterton

    Warren (Pug) Willingham
    THE PUGTONES
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=919339&content=music
    SonarX3
    #27
    Lynn
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 12:11:35 (permalink)
    This is probably best left to the imagination.  I'll leave stories like this for Wes Craven.

    All the best,
    Lynn

    my songs
    www.soundclick.com/lynnwilson

    www.youtube.com/lywilson
    my videos

    Cakewalk by Bandlab| Sonar Platinum @ 64bits| i7 860 | 8 gigs ram | W10 @ 64 bits | RME FF 400
    #28
    evadianepug
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 12:14:52 (permalink)
    LOL!!!

     Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed. (GK Chesterton

    Warren (Pug) Willingham
    THE PUGTONES
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=919339&content=music
    SonarX3
    #29
    tom1
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    Re: Fades To Black - Too grim? 2014/10/01 17:33:42 (permalink)
     
    reminds me of Roxette at times;  mix sounds excellent on my system.

    Sonar Producer X2/ProTools/Cubase/Reaper
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    #30
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