LockedFading a MIDi Track - RESOLVED

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MrMook
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2010/11/25 12:53:23 (permalink)

Fading a MIDi Track - RESOLVED

I've done some gradual fades on audio tracks where necessary. I know how to do that. Is there a way to do that on a MIDI track or do I have to convert it to audio first?


post edited by MrMook - 2010/11/26 12:13:28

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    larrymcg
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 14:47:26 (permalink)
    In the midi track piano roll view (not sure what it's called in Sonar 8.x), there should be a way to add and edit midi controllers.  Control-7 is midi volume.  You can use that.  Maybe the Expression control, Control-11, can do the same thing.  And then there are envelopes of various flavors.
    --Larry


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    larrymcg
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 14:50:48 (permalink)
    Maybe envelopes are for audio only.  In any case, control-7 and control-11 will work.  Note that control-11 only lets you reduce the sound level (IIRC).
    --Larry

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 15:20:25 (permalink)
    I have started working exclusively with audio... converting mid to audio before the final mix,....... BUT I am really sure you can envelope the midi tracks just like audio, because the volume faders DO work to control the volume in a midi track..and popping the volume envelope in the track will control the fader.

    SO I say yeah... you can do that.

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    MrMook
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 19:38:38 (permalink)
    Thanks. I'll give it a shot tomorrow after the Akla-Selzter kicks in.

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    Beagle
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 20:56:55 (permalink)
    if you don't want to convert it to audio first, why not just use a volume envelope on the synth output track?

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    MrMook
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 21:21:56 (permalink)
    Thanks, Beag!

    I do some work with a friend who visits a few times a year. He'll say, "That needs an organ". I'll send him a rough mix. He says, "Not that organ. I meant some other organ".

    Converting to audio makes it more difficult to swap synths.

    I'll give that a try.

    Dave- 

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    Chappel
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/25 21:28:56 (permalink)
    One easy way to do a fade (or any fader movement) on a midi track is to right click the volume slider (in either the Track Inspector or the Mixing Console) for the midi track and select Automation Write Enable. Then start the project where you want the fade to begin (or earlier) and just click and drag the fader down just like it was an audio track. When the project stops (or you stop it) right click the fader again and uncheck Automation Write Enable. As long as Automation READ enable is checked the fader will automatically  follow the movement you made. This will create a volume envelope in the track that you can always go back to and edit. It ends up being the same thing as manually creating a volume envelope and creating nodes with the mouse.

    I find it easier just to create the track envelope and add the nodes myself but automating the fader movement is a good way to get a volume envelope started with a rough idea of where you want the volume to go.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/26 03:10:11 (permalink)
    Beagle


    if you don't want to convert it to audio first, why not just use a volume envelope on the synth output track?

    ^^^^ This
     
     
    Easiest way by far.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/26 08:54:40 (permalink)
    I like to convert to audio tracks..... but I will at times... (not always) detach the synth from the track and simply hide the midi source track. That way, I can reconstitute it if I need it, and decide to change the sample.

    That allows me to have ONE synth audio track.... I add the midi track and sample I want to use..... bounce the track to audio..... and disconnect the midi track and hide it..... for the next instrument, I add another midi source track, and repeat the process..... this avoids having to add the synth every time.

    One synth... many midi source tracks. Disconnected when not in  use.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/11/26 08:57:55

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    #10
    MrMook
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/26 12:13:02 (permalink)
    Many good ideas. Thanks for the info.

    Issue resolved.

    I may try GHackers idea if I can muddle through it.

    Dave- 

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/11/26 14:12:03 (permalink)
    I assume you mean  the stuff in post #10. It's really not that difficult to grasp.

    You simply set up on audio track to host the synth..... add a midi track to record the midi. Of course you have to link them together to tell the midi track where to send the data...... and when you get the track right.... bounce the synth output to audio... a new track is created with the rendered audio..... take a listen to be sure it right... then simply un-link the midi track from the synth... and move it to the bottom of the console view or hide it..... then add a new midi track... link it up to the synth and change the synth's sample or patch.  I always give the new rendered audio track the patch or sample name in case I want to go back...so I'll know the exact sound I used.


    Why do I work this way? I could simply do another insert synth function...... but I work with Music Creator and as a result I'm limited to 8 synths in a project at any given time. Plus, if I don't freeze the synth or remove it, it still sucks up CPU that I'd rather have used somewhere else. SO, as a result, I have developed this way of working with synths. I find it easy...some may not like it.....
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/11/26 14:15:25

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    #12
    Jonbouy
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 15:40:52 (permalink)
    Sometimes a fade out sounds great.

    Do it on the audio though and you'll have greater control than the 127 volume steps midi provides.

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    Beagle
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 15:43:52 (permalink)
    right click on the synth output track.
    choose ENVELOPES>CREATE TRACK ENVELOPE>VOLUME left click
    double click at the begining of the fade to create the first node
    double click at the end of the fade to create the 2nd node

    drag the end of the envelope down to -inf

    done.  7 clicks of the mouse.  why in the world would I want to do something more complicated?   because I don't know anything about MIDI?  OK.  you got me there. 

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    tomas gato
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 15:57:45 (permalink)
    Aloha Jonbuoy,

    youd be amazed at how well the midi voice use of controller #7 works.
    plenty of resolution
     
    You are speaking of audio
    I am speaking of midi

    apples   qumquats
     
     
    aloha

    tomas gato
     
     
    p.s. can you give an example or two of a good tune that fades out?
    And perhaps a fade out on a recording works but seldom on stage.
    That would be how I would differentiate.
    How's that?
     
     
    post edited by tomas gato - 2010/12/03 16:42:26
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    Beagle
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 15:58:39 (permalink)
    you were the one who started being rude (but judging from your past you'll probably delete the rude parts of your post so there's no evidence). 

    this problem was already resolved and you decided that we don't understand MIDI.  you are the one being "arrogant" - I'm the one who's ignorant in your eyes, remember?

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    Beagle
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:04:03 (permalink)
    hmmmm.  how about in the thread title that he revised to say [RESOLVED]?

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    Beagle
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:08:47 (permalink)
    good grief.  you are not worth my time. 

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    Mooch4056
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:16:49 (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    Sometimes a fade out sounds great.

    Do it on the audio though and you'll have greater control than the 127 volume steps midi provides.

    yeah but Jon.... 


    didn't you know.....and if you don't agree it's cool ...... but any idiot would know  didn't you know that in MIDI format fades are a waste?   I know what I am talking about


    Only in audio are fades ok. In midi you have to come up with a creative fade out. OR ELSE!!! 




    Midi and fades don't mix you just think they do. And thats cool if you think they do BUT IN A HIDDEN WAY I AM TELLING YOU YOUR AN IDIOT..... I think your an ok guy 




     

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    Chappel
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:42:27 (permalink)
    I'm going to say goodbye to this thread now. I may not have a chance later.
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:46:09 (permalink)
    Having used a lot of hardware synths I am someone who likes using controller code 7 a lot and I think it is great that all my harwdare synths are responding to it straight away. Fine adjustments along the way in an arrangement midi volume wise can often make lighter work later.

    I might layer 6 synths for example to create a Brian Eno like texture and using Midi volume automate the layers to live and breath a bit. The midi volume command is obviously so helpful in terms of automation along the way.

    Midi fade outs are fine too. You won't hear any volume zipper effects. The only thing is that the signal to noise ratio of your instruments can get a little worse under a midi fade. Because the nominal noise will remain even as the patch goes quiet. And in something like a Kurzweil for example they can get a little noisy at times. Fantastic sounding instrument but not the quietest.

    But that is still not a problem either. Just do the midi fades (so you can have instant hearing of the effect) turn the midi into audio and then add the audio fades as well just prior to the mixdown. That way the fades will hardly change but the noise will be faded to zero now after the audio fade has been done.



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    #21
    MrMook
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:54:15 (permalink)
    Thanks, Jeff.

    Dave- 

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    tomas gato
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:55:12 (permalink)
    lololol

    can you string anything other than drivel to gether to make a post?
     
     
    not you jeff
    post edited by tomas gato - 2010/12/03 17:09:26
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    larrymcg
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:55:16 (permalink)
    Bye.  I'm unsubscribing to this thread.  Disturbing.......

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    tomas gato
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 16:56:52 (permalink)
    aloha all polite and gentle folks


    the opening post did say midi


    go from there were you will

    facts is facts


    aloha
    #25
    MrMook
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 17:12:02 (permalink)
    tomas, knock it off.

    The issue was resolved. There was no need to resurrect the thread with MIDI comments.

    It's not a question of "liking" you. You're rude. You have piss poor interpersonal skills.

    Aloha.

    Dave- 

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    #26
    tomas gato
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 17:15:29 (permalink)
    Some of you are obvioulsy frightened by anyone
    you think might be more intelligent then you.

    well,...................you should be

    and then carry on accordingly

    where's your problem?

    I don't want your job or woman or anything you have
    I don't even want to be subjected to you

    Go away            boo boo day

    and you call me a troll??????


    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahah
    #27
    Mooch4056
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 17:32:03 (permalink)
    tomas gato


    yep

    a genius

    Finally!! We agree!!! 







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    #28
    Mooch4056
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 17:33:51 (permalink)
    Looks Like I won this battle!!! 


    I am done!! LATER!!! 







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    #29
    tomas gato
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    Re:Fading a MIDi Track 2010/12/03 19:27:23 (permalink)
    Plus I'm a very nice guy when I'm not being antagonised by
    mad dogs, wart hogs, belligerent clods and the like.
     
    They are merely jealous of my sleek coat, handsome face and melodious miau

    I love music
    I love musicians
    I love Cakewalk's midi sequencer
    I am also very much more than willing to share with
    and learn from like minded souls who share my enthusiasm for midi
    I don't think I know it all
    quite the opposite
    I'm midiocre at best -  perhaps listen to my stuff and you tell me 
    but compared to the trolls that have run their mouths at me here


    I'm a genius or at least, on the verge of greatness

    lol

    save me



    much aloha all

    love ya cakewalkers

    tomas gato 
    post edited by tomas gato - 2010/12/03 19:33:14
    #30
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