Midiboy
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Favorite Song Writing Techniques
One of my new favorite techniques in song writing doesn't involve effects, sounds, or DAW in any way... Making a song with major chords sound dark. Trent Reznor is a wiz at doing this. I always liked his sound, (not necessarily his lyrical content), but just recently realized that almost all of his song are not only based on a simple pattern that he loops and layers, but they are almost all in a major key. Yet they sound so dark. I really love that technique and have tried it on a few of my own songs (with more positive lyrics lol). Another technique that I've recently gotten into is experimenting with multiple time signatures. What are some of your favorite song writing techniques?
---- Gregg Midiboy Music www.facebook.com/midiboygregg Win10x64 (Eng), Sonar Platinum x64 (Eng w/ lifetime updates), 32GB DDR4 RAM, Intel i7 5820, nVidia 960, Alesis MultiMix 8 USB2 w/ Alesis MultiMix driver. Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88, Korg NanoControl.
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sharke
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/03 08:41:17
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Morrissey of The Smiths was great at making songs in a major key sound melancholic. It was partly because of his voice and partly because his melodies tended to jump back and forth between the major 3rd and the 5th of the scale a lot - which is in itself a minor interval. I use multiple time signatures a lot. My projects are often a real mess because of it. Aside from electronic music I've always had a deep interest in folk music, particularly British singers like Bert Jansch, and because of that my ears are very attuned to the idea of letting lyrical content dictate bar lengths. Folk singers will often shorten or lengthen bars to fit the lyrics they're singing, so you might get a song in 4/4 which has the occasional bars of 3/4 or 5/4 in order to accommodate a lyric which wouldn't otherwise fit. Although most of my music is instrumental, I have picked up a lot of that rhythmic style over the years.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/03 11:14:36
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nothing beats a piano, scratch pad for lyrics and maybe quick recording to USB (or even cell phone) in case ideas start flowing faster than you can jot them down ... sometimes I throw in a simple (hardware) loop player but nothing fancy so that it does not distract. A DAW (well, ANY DAW) just has too many things to setup to record. Even if you have all in place and organized in templates, it sort of breaks the creative flow when working on tunes & chord progressions & lyrical content. It's a different story when the main parts are written (one verse, chorus, maybe a bridge or interlude). then the DAW can work its magic, but that I no longer call that song writing; that's already arranging to me.
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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bapu
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/03 15:00:30
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My techniques has yet to be codified as it continually fails.
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timidi
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/03 19:13:00
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/08/03 20:03:36
My best technique is taking a shower or a walk. Or looking up the word codified.
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jerrydf
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 07:50:26
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For platform and location independence I use Simplenote - a quick text-only note pad which comes as an Android app and also browser-based for PC/laptop. It updates across the platforms reliably. I also use HiQ mp3 recorder app on the phone for quick access to recording ideas off guitar (or banjo) or keyboard (I don't do lyrics). I also use the Box app (and web-browser based) (in fact I also use BT cloud Google cloud and Dropbox, but tend to gravitate to Box for no real reason). For text notes of tunes I tend to use my own coded way of numbers, e.g. [key Cmaj,swing] .5 / 61 16 1. 21 / 4. 32 32 3. / 21... - this of course is an approximation of Help Me Rhonda. I would like to point out that I didn't actually compose that particular melody. jdf
i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 07:59:50
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/08/04 12:00:48
My favorite is whatever happens to work at the moment of inspiration.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Voda La Void
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 08:51:34
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I like to make weird chord progressions work through melody. Radiohead does that really well. Although when I try, it seems to turn out not nearly as weird as I intended. I wish I had a technique. Really..sometimes it's sitting around playing the acoustic and whisper singing...sometimes I'm on the drum set and a riff comes to me...sometimes it's a pure DAW experience where I track ideas and then play along with other instruments as if it was a band jam... most stuff comes from inside my head, with no instrument around, driving around or at work...then I fear forgetting it, so my phone has about 20 short audio files of me mouthing guitar music with senseless lyrics in between breaths...hope no one hears that, would be embarassing..
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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bitflipper
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 09:32:55
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/08/04 12:01:53
I'm still casting about for a technique. Haven't found one yet. But I've only been at it for 50 years, so I'm optimistic.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 13:36:40
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I like what Herb and Bit said for sure .... One thing I like to do as far as inspiration goes is to sit down and just play my guitar wile listening to the overtones and possible melodic voices that are already contained within the chords voices itself ... Using a C major chord for example , C E G ...most peoples ears are trained enough to hear the C as the root , the E as the Major third and the G as the fifth ... IMHO , here's where it can get interesting with a little musical game I like to play ... For starters I may take the C E or the G building blocks of a C major triad and build a chord making those notes the major or the minor third of a chord , the fifth of a chord Major , minor 7 th ect ...or the root of a chord ...major , minor , 7 th ect ect ... That alone can open up a lot of new doors even if my chosen target tonality was to stay true to the sound of C major ... The C as a root we all know how it sounds, The C as a minor third in relationship to an A note can imply a minor third sound the sound of A minor the 6 th degree of the diatonic tonality of C Major The C as a major third can imply an A b major chord , the C as a b 7th in relationship to D can make and become a D7 chord .. The C as a major 7 th tone in relationship to D b can become and imply a Db major 7 th chord .... For the sake of what I'm suggesting if you were able to grab your instrument and play a C triad C E G and then play any number of the possible variations I have just mentioned as chords , you would hear very easily a number of very popular chord progressions you have heard a 1000 times before .. Why not try it , play a C chord first , then build a chord I have mentioned using the above concept , then play the C chord again ...Your ears will know I'm speaking the Truth ... for the sake of brevity I will leave it at that for now ... When one is so inclined , and if they took the time to do the same with the E, and G notes as I mentioned as what I did with the C note , they would soon discover that they would have and hold the key to unlocking thousands of new possibility's well within their musical grasp It can do a lot deeper than that of course ...as deep as you want to go .... IMHO , this is a good place to start , all the best, Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/08/04 14:05:42
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sharke
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 22:27:45
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Many moons ago I wrote an app (for the Amiga!) which was like a Swiss army knife for guitar players, showing chords and scales and identifying chords you threw at it and such like. This chord identifying function gave me hours of fun because not only did it show you exact matches for the notes you clicked on the fretboard (with all inversions), but it also told you all the chords that those notes were contained within too. So if you clicked the notes of a C major chord it would tell you that those notes were contained within Am7, D11, Fma9 etc. It was a great source of inspiration when writing songs. There was also a function by which you could indicate a chord and it would give you a selection of "next chords" that this chord could progress too, including chords in other keys. It was a great tool for coming up with interesting and surprising changes. I wish I still had my Amiga :( I think I've talked about this before but one wacky technique I use to come up with chords and melodies is to take a loop, which could be anything from a full band playing to an orchestra or small ensemble (or just me playing guitar through loads of crazy effects), then let Melodyne's polyphonic note detection do its thing in turning it into MIDI. I then play that MIDI through a synth and because Melodyne is picking up all sorts of insane overtones and getting confused one way or another with complex polyphonic material, the result is usually a chaotic train wreck. But I find that by slowly chipping away at the MIDI chaos in the piano roll - removing notes that obviously don't fit, moving other notes around and even adding some of my own - I can slowly evolve something that makes musical sense and is completely different to anything I would have come up with through noodling on my own.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/04 23:01:34
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Here's a quick example of the kind of wackiness I come up with using the Melodyne technique described above. It still needs a lot of work (especially with the velocities, which are often all over the place after a Melodyne conversion). This is just output to a quick patch I made with Rounds. Pretty crazy huh? You end up with some very odd rhythms as well. This was just some crazy MIDI I had lying around from a Melodyne conversion from god knows where...I can't even remember. I think it was me playing guitar through loads of delays and stuff. I have loads of raw MIDI material lying around like this that I convert and then set aside, recently I picked this one and chipped away at it and sculpted something which kind of makes Melodic sense in a wacky sort of Zappa-esque kind of way....maybe not your cup of tea, but the point is that this is something I would have never come up with using conventional writing techniques.... https://soundcloud.com/sharke-1/record-6-2459
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/05 20:13:05
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☄ Helpfulby paradoxx@optonline.net 2016/08/06 12:13:08
The most important technique I have ever learned was Press the Record Button. When it comes to recording I have paraphrased Amalric's quote about war, "Kill them all and let God sort it out." I say "press record and let God sort it out." Jesse Q. Screed
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sven450
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/06 11:31:00
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My iPhone voice memo recorder is full of me singing bits of lyrics, little melodies and stuff that pop into my head. I sort through that every once in a while and find the good nuggets.
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eph221
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/06 20:37:04
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My songs usually begin as paranoid ideation, where I assign false motives to others. But I won't bore you with the details!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/06 23:35:17
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/08/18 15:53:56
The only technique that seems to work for me is to keep plugging away at it until I feel it's done.
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/07 14:47:04
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☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2016/08/08 12:01:36
I think that the other posters have provided some very good ideas. I notice that there is a lot of free form inspiration going on, letting the muse find you. I have learned a lot by reading this topic. The way you write a song says a lot about your personality. Thanks to all those who posted such great ideas. sven450 My iPhone voice memo recorder is full of me singing bits of lyrics, little melodies and stuff that pop into my head. I sort through that every once in a while and find the good nuggets.
This is a good idea. I have a handheld Olympus voice recorder that I do the same thing with. Sometimes, when I wake up before the sunrise, and I go for a walk, some very interesting things can pop into your mind. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, and you don't have to listen to it if you don't want, it was already posted in the song forum, but the following link is one such song. The melody and verse came to me one morning as I watched the sunrise. Of course, I had to put music to it, but you should try the technique. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=13384346&q=hi Jesse Q. Screed Also, I think it is important to write songs for yourself, and not for some genre, or what you think would be popular, unless you want to be popular. And, if you have average abilities to play instruments, as I do, it is even more important to just let it all hang out and not worry about whether people will like what you do, because 99%of the people won't like it, or care, unless of course you have been given the gift to write catchy melodies. My Grandfather loved to whittle. He would pick up any odd piece of scrap wood and try to fashion a figurine. Nine times out of ten he would toss a finished piece on to the wood pile and start a new one, a new one that he was sure would be better. I still remember that he was always trying. Your skills will improve the more you try.
post edited by Jesse Screed - 2016/08/07 15:11:23
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Rimshot
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/07 18:45:30
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iPhone voice recorder because I commute to work every day. If I don't capture the idea, it's gone. I also have a template setup for a vocal mic, piano, acoustic or electric guitar. I will start messing around with nothing in mind until something interests me. I have lots of takes that were not played to a metronome. I put the date in the song title and go back to listen at times. At this point, I have more ideas waiting to become songs than not. Once I get a new song idea started, I will start building the chords to a basic drum track. I will sing melody over it but without any meaningful lyrics. In fact, I will substitute actual words with guttural sounds - anything to just be a placeholder. Then, as the song takes shape, I will start writing lyrics to the melody. Lyrics take the longest for me. I might work on them for weeks/months. Not in a hurry so it doesn't matter. Once that is all done, I start working on the arrangement of all the parts. That takes less time because I am not that good on guitar and I tend to except my playing too quickly. I have found great use of Melodyne to help me with the gross imperfections of some of my work. When all of that is done, I start mixing. That can take weeks and weeks. I am never happy with the first batch of them. My studio, headphones, iPhone, and car all tell me something different. It is all a compromise at this point. At this point, I don't have anyone to answer too but my fellow forum songwriters and myself. There was a time in my life where it all really mattered with publishing deals, album deals, filmscoring, etc. Those were the days when you did not have the opportunity of working on something over and over again for months at a time. Then, when you recorded, you had to commit to tape and move on again. Now, I have all this technology to help me. I don't take any of it for granted.
Rimshot Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 , OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/07 18:59:47
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Rimshot iPhone voice recorder because I commute to work every day. If I don't capture the idea, it's gone. I don't have anyone to answer too but my fellow forum songwriters and myself. gross imperfections of some of my work. I don't take any of it for granted.
Rim shot, you nailed it (no pun intended.) Except I disagree on one thing, and that is this, you have no one but yourself to answer to. Gross imperfections? Have you seen my earlobes? Jesse Q. Screed
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Mesh
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/08 09:56:57
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/08/08 16:19:56
Midiboy What are some of your favorite song writing techniques?
Beer
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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michaelhanson
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/08 12:19:45
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Rimshot iPhone voice recorder because I commute to work every day. If I don't capture the idea, it's gone. I also have a template setup for a vocal mic, piano, acoustic or electric guitar. I will start messing around with nothing in mind until something interests me. I have lots of takes that were not played to a metronome. I put the date in the song title and go back to listen at times. At this point, I have more ideas waiting to become songs than not. Once I get a new song idea started, I will start building the chords to a basic drum track. I will sing melody over it but without any meaningful lyrics. In fact, I will substitute actual words with guttural sounds - anything to just be a placeholder. Then, as the song takes shape, I will start writing lyrics to the melody. Lyrics take the longest for me. I might work on them for weeks/months. Not in a hurry so it doesn't matter. Once that is all done, I start working on the arrangement of all the parts. That takes less time because I am not that good on guitar and I tend to except my playing too quickly. I have found great use of Melodyne to help me with the gross imperfections of some of my work. When all of that is done, I start mixing. That can take weeks and weeks. I am never happy with the first batch of them. My studio, headphones, iPhone, and car all tell me something different. It is all a compromise at this point. At this point, I don't have anyone to answer too but my fellow forum songwriters and myself. There was a time in my life where it all really mattered with publishing deals, album deals, filmscoring, etc. Those were the days when you did not have the opportunity of working on something over and over again for months at a time. Then, when you recorded, you had to commit to tape and move on again. Now, I have all this technology to help me. I don't take any of it for granted.
Jimmy, This is exactly the way I song write. Lyrics take the longest and are the hardest for me to finish. I am always searching for a better phrase. I also use the iPhone to quickly jot down notes. Most of the time, it seems to be while driving or some place that I can not get to paper to jot them down.
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bapu
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/08 16:01:58
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I had a Technics turntable once. I later wished I had another one and microphone.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/09 00:01:34
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Talk is cheap , just write a song and post it ... if you don't want to post it fine ...go hide it where every you choose to keep it safe . Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/08/09 01:20:21
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BASSJOKER
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/12 20:33:58
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Interesting chat on it all.....yeah Kenny....imagine what we ain't heard from Prince yet....supposedly a load locked up in that vault... I got loads of ideas on phones(sim cards) 'n MC7 now ...some taking shape as songs though only a few that are almost to completion. Time is fleeting in these busy summer months....much to do this fall to catch up....but I get my pick'n moments as I can and trying to keep the "songs" moving along .... ;o)
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
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eph221
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/17 21:34:12
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Mesh
Midiboy What are some of your favorite song writing techniques?
Beer
Mesh this isn't a good idea. That used to be my strategery as well.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/19 16:29:47
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eph221
Mesh
Midiboy What are some of your favorite song writing techniques?
Beer
Mesh this isn't a good idea. That used to be my strategery as well.
Yeah, best to move up to better drugs.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Magic Russ
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/20 13:08:15
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timidi My best technique is taking a shower or a walk.
It really is amazing how often things come to me in the shower.
post edited by Magic Russ - 2016/08/20 13:29:22
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BASSJOKER
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/20 21:46:31
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Pitter patter Pitter patter....bam bam bam...... ....shower jamz ....or in the rain ....always rockin ;o) Seriously though my best lyric moments are when I first wake up very early....before I even want/need to .... ideas based on first thoughts as I come outta the am dream phase of sleep...and if I don't jot it (on phone)down...no way I would remember it . Now it's just puttin them sucka's to the right tunes ... ;o)
-Steve MC7, Lexicon Alpha, Win10,Toshiba,Sat L955,Intel I5 1.7G, 6G Ram, 64 Bit, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Marshall, Vox, Ashdown
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ESharpe
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/08/30 02:22:01
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I defiantly feel like the odd man out here not being a guitar player. When I get ideas for a song (piece of music) I write it down on paper, I am a paper and pencil (pen) sort of guy, always have since I was 12 years old. So my flow is Paper > Sibelius > Sonar. Also a lot (most?) my music does not make use of vertical structures based on thirds (chords). My music is very horizontal in conception, any vertical structures that occur are a result of the horizontal lines or a thickening of the line. Ed
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bjornpdx
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Re: Favorite Song Writing Techniques
2016/09/02 13:21:26
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I like writing songs even tho I don't play any instrument very well.
I have RealGuitar play one of its basic picking patterns to a 4 measure chord sequence. I have another track for the melody part, usually a steel guitar. I insert notes in PRV view (with the mouse) until something interesting happens and build on that. After a whole lot of evolving changes (including the RealGuitar pattern) I can come up with a pretty good song, IMO.
It's all MIDI tho, not that there's anything wrong with that. Lately I've been learning how to play the melody line on a real electric guitar which enables much better articulations.
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