kennywtelejazz
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Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Bands
I would like to have a Multi Band Midi Frequency Filter that would allow me to solo the midi note range frequency's and set it to the ranges of my choice ... Just Like a Multi Band Audio Compressor that has the ability to solo the chosen frequency's and set the dynamics across the audio spectrum . Think GUI along the lines of the Sonitus Multi Band com-presser ..... also , I would like this Midi Multi Band Midi Frequency Filter to be a stock plug included in SONAR not a 3 rd party ... A 4 band Multi Band Midi Frequency Filter would be nice  Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/20 11:10:44
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jpetersen
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/20 19:00:34
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You mean as in selecting all notes from, say, C4 to C5 and pulling up the softer velocities to higher levels proportionally?
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 07:35:22
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jpetersen
You mean as in selecting all notes from, say, C4 to C5 and pulling up the softer velocities to higher levels proportionally?
not exactly , I'm thinking more along the lines of other things .. .my apology for not being clear , it is hard for me to put it into words ..... Let me just keep trying ... OK simple terms for an example of what it is I'm looking for , I would like to be able to take a single track midi file of a great Piano Player and be able to set where I want the Bass to be , where I want the treble to be and then be able to filter out one or the other ... edit either or , and be able to transpose independently...and export what I chose to keep ... that's a two stage ... for a 3 stage Multi filter while in midi I would like to be able to set a bass range , a chord range and a top line or melody range and have the ability to edit at will , set the ranges at will , transpose , and export at will any section I may choose too...independently of each other 4 and more stages plus ....the same as above with the included ability to extract rhythms , edit to scale preference , and the ability to create chords and arpeggios ... there's more I want to keep it simple for now ... Kenny
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 09:46:20
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kennywtelejazz
jpetersen
You mean as in selecting all notes from, say, C4 to C5 and pulling up the softer velocities to higher levels proportionally?
not exactly ,
Since MIDI is strictly digital, each note has Pitch and Velocity and there is no way to predict how loud final synth is going to be when let say there is a chord instead of single note (and so usual "compressor" technology is hard to apply), there are not many variants: 1) simple MIDI Note range, for example C4 to C5 (exists in the Event Filter MFX) 2) velocity scaling per note, for example C4 -> 0.5, D4 -> 0.6 ... A4-> 1. (so, some "slope" of "EQ"). Not sure either such MFX exists, but that is easy to write.
and be able to transpose independently...and export what I chose to keep ...
that's a two stage ...
So, Transpose MFX. And so we have 3 FXes (Select/EQ/Transpose) for 3 bands. In current Sonar we have a small problem with that: one MIDI track can not be routed to several VSTi. So, either you are bound to multi instrument (TTS-1) for audition, you need arbitrary MIDI routing in Sonar (there are such requests) or you simply copy the clip and process each "band" separately. In the last case, you do not need "multiband" functionality and you can do this now (except EQ style filtering). kennywtelejazz
..... also , I would like this Midi Multi Band Midi Frequency Filter to be a stock plug included in SONAR not a 3 rd party ...
The most problematic part of your requist. That imply many Sonar users also want that (since the price will be included into Sonar). That is hard to imagine. I (while I can develop "MIDI EQ" part within a hour) definitively do not want pay extra for such feature. Another direction is to find VST MIDI processor. There are many since Sonar is the only DAW with DX style MFXes. Unlike Sonar MFX, VST can produce several MIDI outputs are so routed to different instruments without problem.
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jpetersen
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 10:28:24
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A single-track MIDI file is just a bunch of keyboard note numbers. There is no intrinsic concept of Bass, or Treble, in MIDI. And definitely no concept of Frequencies as such. The piano sound will be tuned to equal temperament. But another instrument might be tuned to a just intonation, meaning the same notes will have slightly different fundamental frequencies.
Not only that, the MIDI note numbers could trigger a piano sound in the traditional way, but could also trigger drums, atonal sound effects, orchestra cresendos, complete song phrases or even control lights.
A piano player might play with both hands way up on the high end of a piano, then do a long cadenza down to the bottom. At all times, the left hand is the "bass", the right hand the "treble". It would take an artifical intelligence algorithm to figure out what's what, it would only work on keyboard playing and it would probably still make mistakes.
There are, of course, tools that transpose to another key, suggest chord cycles to inspire songwriters, etc.
Sonar has a whole bunch of these MIDI tools. Thanks to your post, I started making a list to reply to you, but gave up because I am beginning to realize there's an amazingly large number of them.
I am currently working on a MIDI-intensive project (which is why this caught my attention), but it's becoming clear I can benefit greatly by stopping for a while and just familiarize myself with what's already in Sonar. I remember Craig's Tip of the Week had some MIDI stuff, too. I'll go through that as well.
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jpetersen
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 11:16:16
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 11:24:51
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scook
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/21 11:40:30
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/02/22 04:27:07
I am pretty sure you can do want you want with the available MFX plug-ins. It will require a separate MIDI track for each range of notes (aka band). The MFX plug-ins involved would be the Event Filter to create the note range for the track, Velocity to adjust the dynamics and Transpose to alter the note values or set to scale. There are several other MFX plug-ins you might find interesting. The tracks themselves provide the Mute/Solo functions for each band. Drum maps also provide an additional layer of control.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/22 04:52:29
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Hello scook , What you have described workflow wise is pretty much how I have been "approaching it " when I go there ....in midi .. It seem a little counter-intuitive to have to clone everything ...not that I have a big problem with that ... On the audio side of things I remember Craig doing a tips and tricks example in a SONAR advanced video I had purchased . IIRC , in his example he took an audio guitar track , cloned it (i think it was 4 times ) then he soloed certain frequency's on each track while using the all Sonitus Multi Bands to isolate , enhance and redirect the frequency's for various panning and stereo effects ... cool thing for audio ... As far as my intended use for what I have proposed as my feature request ... I thought I have my intended use somewhat clear ... to no one in particular As far as who's gonna pay for what ? I more than willing to go third party at this point ... Oh BTW , The is a ton of features in SONAR that mean absolutely nothing to me ... yet I happened to purchase the program and pay for them too ...  Great I spend two hours coming up with my own little set up using Midi effects on a midi track and then I find out I can't save it as a user defined Midi effects chain ...WTF ? .... IMHO the midi effects in SPlat should be able to surpass what I had in SONAR 5 and Project 5 because those programs were out a mere 10 years ago .... apparently they don't ...how sad ...
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/22 06:28:05
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/22 06:43:32
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kennywtelejazz
to no one in particular
As far as who's gonna pay for what ? I more than willing to go third party at this point ...
Oh BTW ,
The is a ton of features in SONAR that mean absolutely nothing to me ... yet I happened to purchase the program and pay for them too ...
In case that is the reaction on my comment, may be you have misinterpreted it. What I thought was: 1) if there are not many users who also want the feature, the chance Cakewalk implement it is small 2) if you are ready to use third party tools, there can be something already available or that can be developed by someone, for example by me... if I understand what you want, that is possible to write and you are not going to refuse the result just because it is not from Cakewalk (money are not involved, all tools I develop for Sonar so far are free to use).
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/22 07:38:06
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azslow3
kennywtelejazz
to no one in particular
As far as who's gonna pay for what ? I more than willing to go third party at this point ...
Oh BTW ,
The is a ton of features in SONAR that mean absolutely nothing to me ... yet I happened to purchase the program and pay for them too ...
In case that is the reaction on my comment, may be you have misinterpreted it. What I thought was:
1) if there are not many users who also want the feature, the chance Cakewalk implement it is small
2) if you are ready to use third party tools, there can be something already available or that can be developed by someone, for example by me... if I understand what you want, that is possible to write and you are not going to refuse the result just because it is not from Cakewalk (money are not involved, all tools I develop for Sonar so far are free to use).
azlow3 , I honestly appreciate you taking the high road it means a lot to me I have been known to get a little hypersensitive online sometimes when people shoot down or take a very clinical approach to ideas or wishlists that are still embryonic in nature .... for the record I'm not saying you did that in your post ... it just happens to be one of my defense mechanisms to vent and put a line in the sand In the past , here on the forum there were and have been a number of people I have outright drawn swords with .... They found out that I'm not passive aggressive at all . I'm straight up old school N. Y. City style aggressive . That means I wont shine on / smile and stab a person in the back and pretend we are being civil while we do a little pu$$yfoot dance for show ... It also means that once they have been warned... I will stab that person in the front preferably in broad daylight in a public place and look the person in the eye  ... thankfully everybody I have had run ins with are either no longer here because they have moved on , or they have been banned .... Anyway the above may be more info then some folks need to know...i put it out there because some folks just don't get me As far as you and I go ..... you have attempted to help me I apologize to you if I have come off as being difficult . I had no idea that you know a thing or two ..I certainly can respect that ...creativity is creativity in my book My strength is as a player / musician . When it comes to computers and coding I'm well out of my league around here and I'm surprised that Cakewalk has put up with me all these years .... thanks , yeah I'm interested ... Kenny
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scook
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/22 11:01:32
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kennywtelejazz
What you have described workflow wise is pretty much how I have been "approaching it " when I go there ....in midi ..
It seem a little counter-intuitive to have to clone everything ...not that I have a big problem with that ...
I figured as much but could not tell from the previous posts. Cloning the MID data is not really necessary, multiple tracks could be driven by a master MIDI track using a virtual MIDI cable. Yeah, the FX chainer does not support MFX so for now the only solution is templates.
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stevec
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/22 13:20:35
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kennywtelejazz
...Great I spend two hours coming up with my own little set up using Midi effects on a midi track and then I find out I can't save it as a user defined Midi effects chain ...
I don't really have a need for the specifics of the OP, but this I can vote for!
post edited by stevec - 2016/02/22 13:34:41
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ebibault51
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/23 09:07:48
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I saw a professional engineer working on PT. He had a plugin that looked like GlossEQ. But in addition to this, he had a kind of solo function on each band. Then he could hear WHAT HE WAS ABOUT TO CUT. Perfect to isolate a noise that you don't want.
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ricoskyl
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/23 10:49:59
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Kenny, In an effort to simplify your workflow with existing tools, you might consider using take tracks for your bass, treble, melody parts after using the Midi Filter, (copy the filtered midi notes and place them in separate take tracks) this way you could move between the sections and either limit your edits to selected portion, or treat the entire track as a single entity. [This could also be managed with MIDI patchpoint/aux feature requested elsewhere in this forum.] For my 2 cents, I agree with you that live MIDI filtering that could be directed to distinct tracks or instruments would be useful. I envision easy keyboard splits and range-specific audio FX. But I think with the strengths of Sonar's current resources, both azslow3 and scook have given some very solid suggestions. Finally, please let me know before swords are drawn so I can run away. I'm not very fast, and I need a head start.
If you want to make enemies, try to change something. -Woodrow T. WilsonTurbulence is a life force. It is opportunity. Let’s love turbulence and use it for change. -Ramsay Clark ----------------------Sonar Platinum Win 10 x64 on HP Pavilion i7 5500 12Gb RAM, Tascam US-16x08, NVidia 840 8Gb vram, Multi-Screen, Multi-Touch
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/23 12:51:01
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scook
kennywtelejazz
What you have described workflow wise is pretty much how I have been "approaching it " when I go there ....in midi ..
It seem a little counter-intuitive to have to clone everything ...not that I have a big problem with that ...
I figured as much but could not tell from the previous posts. Cloning the MID data is not really necessary, multiple tracks could be driven by a master MIDI track using a virtual MIDI cable.
Yeah, the FX chainer does not support MFX so for now the only solution is templates.
scook If you happen to feel up to it , I would like hear more about the virtual midi cable .. stevec
kennywtelejazz
...Great I spend two hours coming up with my own little set up using Midi effects on a midi track and then I find out I can't save it as a user defined Midi effects chain ...
I don't really have a need for the specifics of the OP, but this I can vote for!
Steve, Yes , I thought it was odd that I could not save my own user defined midi device effects chain .... I had gotten so used to creating my own for audio in Splat I wasn't aware of that limitation over on the Midi side of Splat ... that needs to be a feature request ebibault51
I saw a professional engineer working on PT. He had a plugin that looked like GlossEQ. But in addition to this, he had a kind of solo function on each band. Then he could hear WHAT HE WAS ABOUT TO CUT. Perfect to isolate a noise that you don't want.
Sure that works great for audio I'm looking to do that on the Midi end of things .... more along the lines of being able to solo different octaves of a full spectrum / range midi performance ... ricoskyl
Kenny,
In an effort to simplify your workflow with existing tools, you might consider using take tracks for your bass, treble, melody parts after using the Midi Filter, (copy the filtered midi notes and place them in separate take tracks) this way you could move between the sections and either limit your edits to selected portion, or treat the entire track as a single entity.
[This could also be managed with MIDI patchpoint/aux feature requested elsewhere in this forum.]
For my 2 cents, I agree with you that live MIDI filtering that could be directed to distinct tracks or instruments would be useful. I envision easy keyboard splits and range-specific audio FX. But I think with the strengths of Sonar's current resources, both azslow3 and scook have given some very solid suggestions.
Finally, please let me know before swords are drawn so I can run away. I'm not very fast, and I need a head start.
Don't worry ricoskyl , I'm not looking to go all Kendo on you I may need to look into that patch point feature request you mentioned ... As far as simplifying my workflow goes , I placed a Win 10 64 lap top w Splat on my kitchen table w a 2i4 , a set of cans and monitors ... Then I took all my other computers both Mac and PC and stuck them in the closet .. Yeah , that's about as simple as I've ever gotten and I'm doing that to force myself to dig deeper ... As far as contributing members , Yeah I'm here to learn from all ...Yet, " it ain't only a one way street " here's a little something I did in midi with my little humble SONAR woodshed rig .... I want to be able to do more of this with an easier workflow when I work in MIDI http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3365474 Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/23 13:11:20
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scook
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/02/23 13:29:48
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/02/23 14:20:54
LoopBe1 and LoopMIDI are two free virtual MIDI cables I have used. I am using LoopBe1 atm. After installing the software, enable the virtual cable in SONAR MIDI device preferences. This will add the virtual cable to the I/O drop downs in MIDI and instrument tracks. In your project add a MIDI track like normal except instead of routing the track to a synth, select the virtual cable. This track is the master used to drive other tracks. Add other MIDI/instrument tracks setting the virtual cable as the input.
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/04 10:20:54
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/08 02:59:00
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azslow3
While I still think that is not the way to go, I have promised some "3band midi EQ, with transpose and solo", so here it is
You can get it from http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html,
the screen-short is from examples.
@ azslow3 , WOW , I just noticed this post of yours right now ...I get the feeling both of us have been super busy . I released a new song on The Songs forum and a new video in Techs Forum all in the past few days so I haven't been around .Then I see you came out with this plug I was looking over your topic , how deep and how much will I have to learn to be able to use this ? Is this something I can fiddle around with or do I have to learn how to program Lua ? Just download it right now and I've been reading your thread .I hope to do a little experimenting in the next day .... thank you Kenny
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/08 08:44:23
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kennywtelejazz
I was looking over your topic , how deep and how much will I have to learn to be able to use this ?
Is this something I can fiddle around with or do I have to learn how to program Lua ?
Just download it right now and I've been reading your thread .I hope to do a little experimenting in the next day ....
May be my topic is a bit misleading. You do not need to learn programing to use ready presets. You just install the plug-in (it has installer, no "command line" tricks), download the file with presets (from "Examples" post), install these presets using Cakewalk Plug-in Manager (in Sonar Utilities menu) and then you use each preset as a "normal" plug-in. The only difference is that you can see the code and modify it if you want, but you are no way forced to do this. I do not think you can enjoy using this "3band MIDI EQ" any close to the level I enjoy listening your song, but installation and operations are way easier then following your tutorials for "3 chords n00b" guitar player I was surprised the approach is in fact working, routing several piano peaces into ST3 throw this preset was a lot of fun.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/09 22:44:39
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azlow3 , It looks like to me that I have to do a bit of studying and reading on your thread to get up to speed .. this is as far as I got .  It show s up , now I have to figure out how to import thanks for listening to my new tune Kenny
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/10 03:14:11
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In the last post of the description/documentation topic: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.msg1370.html#msg1370 there is attached file: AZLua_Examples_v2.spp Download it and follow the second part of Installation instructions (post number 2 in that topic). In short words, what you see it the plug-in which does nothing by itself. You need some preset, which unlike conventional plug-ins, is the program.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/10 16:36:49
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I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong here .
I had downloaded the preset and I have read post # 2 ...
Where I'm getting stuck is I open SONAR , place a midi track w a midi example on it , then I add the plug to the midi track and for some odd reason it seems that I can not call up the import preset function ...
is there something simple I'm missing ?
all the best ,
Kenny
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/10 18:02:07
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I reprint (modified) part you should do once, no MIDI tracks required. Important part in bold
Open Cakewalk Plug-in Manager from Sonar Utilities menuSelect "MIDI Effects", "AZ Lua".Press "Import..." buttons, select SPP file, press "Open""Close" the managerNormally imported presets appear is the plug-in presets list without Sonar restart. But sometimes the restart is required
After that, when you see the picture you have posted before, click where you see "No preset" in the left top corner. Select "Example: 3 bands". When you start using it, you will immediately notice that changing parameters do not have immediate effect. It takes 1-2 measures. That is Sonar "feature", nothing I can correct... Sonar "preparing" MIDI buffer in advance, there is no way to discard already prepared part. In fact Stop/Start can be faster way to apply the change. Fortunately in live mode that is not a problem.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/10 18:29:53
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You have almost convinced me to make YouTube videos how to setup my programs
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/11 16:56:00
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azslow3
You have almost convinced me to make YouTube videos how to setup my programs
azslow3 , Yes , I may need to have to go there and see how its done ... I have tried to follow your directions to the T ...still no import dialog shows . On the Advice of my Legal Counsel I invoke my right to be not the sharpest knife in the kitchen . I'm just a Guitar Player Mon... " all the best , Kenny
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azslow3
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/11 17:24:17
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Lets try with the screen capture: 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/11 17:44:11
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azslow3
Lets try with the screen capture:
azlow3 , WOW , that worked  thank you .... later on after I take care of my daily chores , I hope to be able to make some time to give your plug a run through . all the best , Kenny
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Feature R... Midi Multi Band Frequency Filter w the Ability to Solo the Individual Ban
2016/03/16 03:29:35
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I have messed around with this a little bit , still have a ways to go as far as learning how to use it ..
Hope to get back to it in a day or two …
Kenny
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