Helpful ReplyFed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows)

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jbow
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2015/12/21 23:04:53 (permalink)

Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows)

I'm going to move to a MacBook ASAP, probably sometime in the spring. I've had it with Microsoft and their mandatory updates BUT before I jump, does Apple force you to update? I'll use the MacBook for regular computer stuff like email, surfing around places like here, probably give Logic a look but will stick with Studiocat and Sonar but offline and I may stay on 8.1, no email, no surfing, no antivirus on the DAW. I only use CCC and go to vendors like XLN, TT, IK, etc. I keep it as lean as possible.Jim makes a good machine, I don't want MS messing it up. If I move to W-10 on it I'm taking Jim's advice and making a drive image first (well, I'm doing that anyway but still).
I've really had it with MS and their arrogance. So, will I be in the same boat with a MacBook or will they let me decide when or if to update?
Also, is there anyway to run any version of Sonar on a Mac? I don't guess it matters, I can use Dropbox if I do anything on it that I want to move to my DAW. MS makes me feel like I am dealing with a government agency.
 
Any advice from Mac users is appreciated, I know a couple of people here who use a MacBook and like it a lot but I really know nothing about it. I know Apple does not force me to update my iPhone.
Been one of those days. Had to roll back 1511 and in the process I realized that W-10 had turned off Norton. It had not scanned since 9/29/15... that is a bridge too far. Yes, I should have paid closer attention but it has always worked. They are always changing things, they turn things back on I had turned off, this last update removed a program... too much for me.
 
Thanks,
J

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#1
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 09:28:22 (permalink)
Hi JBow,
 
FWIW, The grass really isn't greener on the other side.  
Have you read about the El Capitan OSX update and the many related issues?
 
If you're offline, you don't have to worry about unwanted Windows 10 updates.
When it's time to get up-to-date, connect and download/install updates.
 
Apple doesn't "force" you to update your iPhone... but if you don't keep up with the OS updates, at some point your apps stop functioning (or functioning properly).  This has happened to my step-daughter numerous times.
She's got an older iPhone 4 and an older MacBook Pro.
 
Apple presents their products nicely packaged and designed to "simplify" the end-user experience.
That "simplification" comes at the expense of doing things Apple's way.
Apple maintains tight control over their users by forcing you to use iTunes to update/backup and move data.
ie:  What should be a simple drag/drop operation to move songs around is (IMO) a PITA using iTunes.
If I want music on my Galaxy S6, I connect to a computer via USB... and drag/drop the desired songs.
 
 
 
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2015/12/22 11:43:47

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#2
finstah99
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 10:03:31 (permalink)
Mac won't force you to upgrade to El Capitan but it will display in the App Store as the top listed update. I have 1 MBP on El Capitan and one with Yosemite. Yosemite is much more stable. Also, do NOT run El Capitan if you use Adobe products.
 
Sonar is Windows based so if you want to run on a Mac you need a VM (Virtual Machine) or Bootcamp to install Windows, which kinda leaves you with the same problem. Can't speak for Sonar but I've had some issues with Windows software buggin' on my VM Mac.
 
I too have Windows 10 in my studio and I'm just as fed up as you. Constant issue with Realtek drivers and the annoying buzz/static noise. Going to wipe it and create a fresh Win 8.1 install.
 
Just to add, you can tighten things up privacy and update wise in Win 10 settings.
post edited by finstah99 - 2015/12/22 10:18:37
#3
JonD
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 10:14:23 (permalink)
Hey J, hope you're doing well.
 
I'm not on Windows 10 (still on Win 8.1 - rock-solid here), but I'm sure I've read that the auto-update can be disabled.  You should look into that.  Certainly a much less drastic - not to mention cheaper - alternative than going to a Mac. 

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#4
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 10:31:34 (permalink)
Hey jbow,
 
I had a friend of mine who managed a local music shop give me his i Mac for Christmas around 5 years ago .
He was looking to get a brand spanking new one and he knew that I was hounding him to death on switching over to a Mac , he knew I didn't have any money ,  so I was grateful he did that for me ...
A week later I gave him my favorite Jazz Guitar for Christmas ...he freaked
While I was standing there in the store one of his salesman Jake was drooling all over the guitar looking like a male Bambi caught in the headlights and I said to him , here this ones for you and I gave him a Fender Squier 51 guitar that I had customized to the hilt  ...he also freaked   
....................What a great Christmas ..................I wish they were all like that .......this one sure ain't
 
Any way that's how I got my i Mac . I have used it for everything from music to all around general computing ...
I'm very happy with it , I love the OS , it has full versions of Logic and a number of other Music programs .
Core Audio is Great , none of the hassles of dealing with the typical setups for music that I have had to do on my Win Machines ....during this whole time I used my XP w SONAR 6 PE and 2 years ago I went with a Win 8 64 bit and upgraded to X3 , then recently SPlat ....
Win 8 I'm pretty happy with and I bought a Win 10 computer w Win 10 pre installed ...
The Win 10 machine runs nice , but it is giving me a couple of headaches along the lines of some that you have mentioned ....
I honestly hope that Win 10 gets its act together and learns to behave , I'm willing to give it time ...
Like you my main computer is a Win 8 64 and I hope to be able to put Win 10 on it ....
my mind is made up that I won't anytime soon because the is plenty of time and only if things get better w Win 10 in the next few months will I even consider doing that OS upgrade ...
I picked up another Mac , a Macbook that a guy was looking to sell because he had bought his daughter a brand new one for college .
I don't know what to say to you , I love SONAR and I'm updated on my Win 64 machines ....I go online to update
I just don't care for Windows If it was not for SONAR and Samplitude Pro x 2 I would be long gone ...
 
If eventually you do decide to get a Mac at some point you may be surprised to know that a lot of the music programs you are familiar with will be just like what you are used to in Windows ..
My iMac has Addictive drums  , Melodyne , Addictive Keys , Amplitude , Sample Tank , Sample Tron , Sonic Synth, the other one Philwhatever the orchestral one, Z3ta +2 , Harrsion Mixbus 3 , Abelton Live 9 ,the full version of  Vandal and a bunch of other Crap I'm used to using in Windows ...
the programs , synths , plugs all act the same as what I am used to in both operating systems with the exception of not getting constantly interrupted all the time like what happens in Windoze 
 
Then there is all the stuff that is Mac only ...ex Logic and a few other nice DAW's 
The vibe is totally different in OSX , it's peaceful and nobody is trying to force any $hit on me ...
anyway I don't want to get into a Mac VS PC thing with anybody ....please respect that I'm just rapping w a bud ..
Me personally I'm not gonna boot camp my Macs , if I was I would probably do Win 7  ...
I like things the way they are
anyway I don't know if I was any help to you ...
I hope you eventually get one even if it's like what I have a few years old ...they last a long time if you treat them nice
they may seem expensive , yet all the programs they come with are very good ...
also the app store has a few nice ad ons at decent prices ...any thing I got there in the app store I can putt on all my computers
 
any way nice talking with you ,
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/12/22 10:52:10

                   
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#5
finstah99
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 10:41:17 (permalink)
Personally if you're going to get a Mac, use it as a Mac. Keep the PC too, 2 machines are better than 1. :)
 
Here are 2 links to help setup your Win 10 privacy and updates.

 


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#6
ampfixer
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 10:54:11 (permalink)
The majority of windows updates are just definition files for the MS virus prg. They used to be silent but now they are announced by windows and it happens twice every 24 hrs for me. The windows OS has had very few actual updates.
 
I think jumping to a new platform will simply give you new issues, but it's your nickel. I love the demo of Logic at the music store but I wont support Apple just to access one program. The Apple business model is a much more expensive route. Updates to hardware seem to be a mandatory thing.
 
Whatever you do, I hope you continue to hang out here. We could call you Rain II

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#7
Starise
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 12:13:13 (permalink)
I have thoughts like this too. Didn't make sense in my case. As Jim mentioned the grass really isn't greener, different maybe but not greener. Apple has had its share of problems lately. Still a good platform. If I were in the Windows camp already setup I can't see the point. 
 
I just held my nose and went with Windows 10. There are workarounds to the issues. 
 
I don't know your situation so understand that I'm not necessarily pointing this at you. I think in some cases the new OS is going into machines that it probably shouldn't be going into. 
 
There are some great people here that I'm sure can help you to get through the issues. Walk you through it. Worst case...hook up remote control and let one of us jump on your machine and make a few adjustments. People you trust of course.... don't worry we will leave all the coffee house posts intact  

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#8
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 14:08:22 (permalink)
One of these days I sure  hope to afford one of Jim's computers until that day arrives I can say
The grass is greener for me and I 'm happy to mow the lawn .
I got 2 brands of grass seed for your consideration  Core Audio and Apogee
That's what I run nowadays ...outside of Windows ..
Sorry I don't have the clips to prove it yet ...the difference is mind blowing
I have 5 machines , 3 are Windows , one is custom built for me  and 2 are Mac's
I will admit that Windows 10 is handling audio better than XP, 7 and 8 did , it is certainly getting there ...
It is very possible if I drop Mac Pro type of bread and buy one of our respected computer builders computers custom made I may sing a different tune ...
I hope someday a Win machine can give CORE Audio a run for it's money w out have to drop car prices to get there .
 
Anyway I know that is not what this thread is about ...I know this thread is about supporting jbow ....
 
Maybe I'm just plain old stupid , because I think everybody should have to opportunity to create music on both platforms.
Windows and OSX ..
I don't give 2 $hits about what anyone on line has to say if don't use both platforms .
How can they know if they only use one and never used the other long enough to get fluent w it ....
Use them both . Find out what works best for you ...
Where I come from that's the only way you will ever have the wisdom to know and be comfortable with the difference
 
Kenny
 
PS I happen to Love SONAR much more than I love Logic and that is the only reason why I am still here .
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/12/22 14:38:34

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
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#9
Starise
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/22 14:44:03 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
 
Apple doesn't "force" you to update your iPhone... but if you don't keep up with the OS updates, at some point your apps stop functioning (or functioning properly).  This has happened to my step-daughter numerous times.
She's got an older iPhone 4 and an older MacBook Pro.
 
Apple presents their products nicely packaged and designed to "simplify" the end-user experience.
That "simplification" comes at the expense of doing things Apple's way.
Apple maintains tight control over their users by forcing you to use iTunes to update/backup and move data.
ie:  What should be a simple drag/drop operation to move songs around is (IMO) a PITA using iTunes.
If I want music on my Galaxy S6, I connect to a computer via USB... and drag/drop the desired songs.
 
 
 




 I ran into this exact same thing. My wife never updates her phone OS. We waited a bit too long and now it doesn't have enough memory to update. She has the iPhone 5 ..so we aren't talking an old phone here. I OTOH have been updating my OS regularly and all has been well there. We both have iPads. Mine has run out of memory. The memory is even too low to update the OS and apps on it. My wife's iPad is the same way. Lesson- Don't buy a 16gb apple anything. They want you to plug into iTunes and buy space on the Apple cloud to store your apps/data. What use is a smart phone that half of the apps need to be in the cloud or on a computer?
So I bought these android tablets for Christmas gifts. Nice ones with memory card slots. I have since found out that at least two of the four I bought won't be needed because the recipients don't want/need one....this might be a crossing over point to android for me 
 
I've used Apple computers awhile back. I can't really claim to be an experienced Mac user. If the computer experience is anything like the ipad/iphone experience I wouldn't touch a Mac. The only saving grace for me has been that I bought a 64gb iPhone..so that device hasn't exceeded it's memory capacity.

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#10
steveo42
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/23 09:42:50 (permalink)
If you can deal with the walled garden approach and the "Apple way" is acceptable to you, then Apple makes some fine machines. They certainly require far less tinkering if you will than Windows machines and that is true of audio as well.
Plug it in and it works. At least until Apple breaks it with an update like El Capitan. No BIOS tweaks, no C-States, No playing with turbo-boost, power profiles etc. You plug in your interface and it works.
 
But again, it's a walled garden approach. Apple is set up to sell you stuff from the Apple Store. It is all tightly coupled with iTunes. Try changing ring tones to free ones offered by say Zedge. It's easy on an Android. It's a nightmare on an iPhone.
I have an iPhone 5s and last time I checked Safari is still hard wired to be the default browser and while you can install Opera or Chrome, you cannot change the default browser to one of them.
That's how Apple works. Do it their way or else.
 
So it boils down to what's important to you.
 
#11
BobF
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/23 11:04:02 (permalink)
ampfixer
The majority of windows updates are just definition files for the MS virus prg. They used to be silent but now they are announced by windows and it happens twice every 24 hrs for me. The windows OS has had very few actual updates.
 
I think jumping to a new platform will simply give you new issues, but it's your nickel. I love the demo of Logic at the music store but I wont support Apple just to access one program. The Apple business model is a much more expensive route. Updates to hardware seem to be a mandatory thing.
 
Whatever you do, I hope you continue to hang out here. We could call you Rain II




TANGENT WARNING:  Defender updates
I have auto update disabled for Windows, but I like to get the Defender updates at least daily.  To do this without having to remember or run the full Windows update, I have this set up in Task Scheduler to run each day at 7:00AM

 
It works great.  Running as SYSTEM keeps a Window from popping up


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#12
ampfixer
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/23 13:42:18 (permalink)
Thanks Bob, good tip.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#13
Richard Cranium
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 02:01:23 (permalink)
jbow
I'm going to move to a MacBook ASAP, probably sometime in the spring. I've had it with Microsoft and their mandatory updates BUT before I jump, does Apple force you to update? I'll use the MacBook for regular computer stuff like email, surfing around places like here, probably give Logic a look but will stick with Studiocat and Sonar but offline and I may stay on 8.1, no email, no surfing, no antivirus on the DAW. I only use CCC and go to vendors like XLN, TT, IK, etc. I keep it as lean as possible.Jim makes a good machine, I don't want MS messing it up. If I move to W-10 on it I'm taking Jim's advice and making a drive image first (well, I'm doing that anyway but still).
I've really had it with MS and their arrogance. So, will I be in the same boat with a MacBook or will they let me decide when or if to update?
Also, is there anyway to run any version of Sonar on a Mac? I don't guess it matters, I can use Dropbox if I do anything on it that I want to move to my DAW. MS makes me feel like I am dealing with a government agency.
 
Any advice from Mac users is appreciated, I know a couple of people here who use a MacBook and like it a lot but I really know nothing about it. I know Apple does not force me to update my iPhone.
Been one of those days. Had to roll back 1511 and in the process I realized that W-10 had turned off Norton. It had not scanned since 9/29/15... that is a bridge too far. Yes, I should have paid closer attention but it has always worked. They are always changing things, they turn things back on I had turned off, this last update removed a program... too much for me.
 
Thanks,
J




Well it does sound like you are having a bad trot. Myself things couldn't be better with Windows 10, no issues whatsoever, haven't noticed any settings being altered, just checked the other week after the big 1511 update and all seemed as it was. The only thing is that I had to re auth Addictive Drums/Keys, Mercuriall and I think Trilian, not a big problem, and apart from the same being required when first switching over to Windows 10, that big update was the only other time this was necessary.
 
As to your Norton issue, I myself would have looked at that as a blessing, and the only thing Microsoft could have done better was to remove it altogether, IMO Norton is the biggest Virus going, wouldn't touch it with a 40 ft pole. YMMV however. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

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#14
fireberd
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 06:47:48 (permalink)
+1 to Richard's post.  Other than reauthorizing AD2 which I don't consider a "problem",  and Roland dragging their feet getting Win 10 drivers out (which is not Microsoft's fault), I've had Zero problems with Win 10 or the recent 1511 update.
 
I use the built in Windows Defender and Malwarebytes (I have a paid version).

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#15
Rimshot
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 11:38:31 (permalink)
+1 to fireberd. 
 
@jbow - I purchased my StudioCat DAW right after you did. I think we have the same box. I added personnal apps to mine like Office, Camtasia, etc... 
I use Defender, Malywarbytes, and CCleaner ALL the time. 
I don't know what went wrong with your PC. Mine is performing great and so far the W10 updates have not messed me up. 
Have you run your issues by Jim Roseberry?
post edited by Rimshot - 2015/12/24 11:51:07

Rimshot 

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#16
tlw
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 12:40:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2015/12/25 17:01:10
We've three Macs around the place, one being a MacBook Pro I'm running Logic on. As the DAW PC expired recently I'm considering either new PC or putting Windows on a Mac using bootcamp. Or to fully switch to Logic despite it being annoying in a few ways. Not sure which way to go yet.

I like Macs, but I'm not an Apple fanboi any more than I am a Windows one, an IBM OS2 one, a MSDOS one or an AmigaOS one. I just happen to know and have experience of those operating systems.

Macs are far easier to configure for audio production than a Windows PC. Full stop, end of story. No issues with things like cpu sleep states, core parking, wifi drivers fouling up latency and all the other things that need attention to try and force Windows to behave itself. Apple's Core Audio and Core MIDI simply "just work". Using Wifi and bluetooth while recording at low latencies are no issue at all. Setting up a complex hardware-based MIDI setup so that every application will see it the same way, no problem.

Though the Windows configuration issues may come back if running Windows on Mac hardware, don't know because I've yet to try it.

El Capitan is very solid indeed. The initial update from Yosemite saw some audio hardware not working. Not because of Apple but because manufacturers, even including MOTU, didn't start working on a compatible driver until around or even after the OS release date. Despite months of warnings and pre-release versions of El Cap being available for months. :-/ The hardware people finally got their act together pretty quickly though. The driver issue seems to have largely been connected with Apple changing the USB driver to make it more standards-compliant and fix a minor bug or two.

OS X in general is a full-blown GNU/Unix system with a very good graphical interface. From a user point of view it does some things in a similar way to Windows, others quite differently. It seems to require less in the way of computer resources than Windows and generally behaves itself.

Updates are not mandatory, and disastrous ones very uncommon indeed. Apple know exactly what every Mac contains hardware-wise so there are far fewer compatability issues and unexpected consequences to updates. Using the Time Machine backup app you can image the entire system before updating then roll back if necessary. I've never had to roll back, but that's how to do it.

Things to watch in OS X/Macs.

There were many reports of fusion drives fouling up pro audio a year or three ago, though that seems to have been fixed. Personally I'd just go for an SSD every time, they work fine.

The lack of internal expansion means relying on USB3 or Thunderbolt external drives. Both are plenty fast enough, but the TRIM command cannot be applied to any drive using a USB interface, only Thunderbolt. Many USB+Thunderbolt drives won't accept it either. That's because of the USB/SATA interface. To activate TRIM on an external or non-Apple drive requires using the 'trimforce' terminal command (very simple).

Any hardware with 'Thunderbolt' in its name tends to be expensive. As do external drives marked "for use with Mac". So just get an ordinary 'Windows' one and reformat it.

OS X can read MS FAT and NTFS formated drives, but only write to FAT.

Time Machine is the backup app. If activated it scans hourly for new versions of files then does an incremental backup. Hourly is a pest if working with audio, and I'd rather hundreds of MB size audio files backed up by me copying them where and when I want to anyway. There's a third-party app available for getting Time Machine under control which works OK. Backups can also be automated by shell scripts if you're so inclined.

If you need to use the computer for other things besides a DAW, Apple's equivalent of MS Office is good and it's free. Photoshop etc. run as well if not better as they do on a more powerful PC. Games (and viruses) are the area where OS X is really lacking.

The biggest downside to Apple is the price. The hardware is seriously good quality, but you do pay for it. Though Mac users tend to upgrade (which means replace) their computers far less often than Windows users.

If I were buying a new desktop Mac for DAW work I would look at the iMacs that can be upgraded at purchase to i7 processors. Probably a 27" Retina model (Retina displays are fantastic). For less money, the 21" Retina. Laptop choice really comes down to which MacBook Pro you want to use. The Air is fine in it's way but not powerful enough to handle big projects and the MacBook, while powerful enough, has only one USB socket to talk to the world through. A 256GB internal drive is ample for OS and applications.

The Mac Pro is ridiculously expensive and looking a bit long in the tooth as well.

It's worth keeping an eye on Apple's website for factory reconditioned Macs. They're usually current production ones that get sent back from the Apple shops then thoroughly cleaned, checked over, parts replaced as required and sold at a 15% discount with the same warranty etc. as a brand new one.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
#17
gustabo
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 20:26:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2015/12/24 20:59:58
FWIW, Using O&O ShutUp10, you can take control of Win10...


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

#18
BobF
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Re: Fed up with Windows 10. Mac question (I'll keep my DAW offline and on Windows) 2015/12/24 20:48:31 (permalink)
gustabo
FWIW, Using O&O ShutUp10, you can take control of Win10...




Bookmarked FFR

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#19
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