Feeling a little left out with X3,

Just speaking out my thoughts not hating sonar, but wishing it could be a bit more considerate with past things they have pushed to the whey side or improving what can be improved, this always moving on yet never looking back has  hit home to me, because of all the third party stuff, its a cop out, this third party stuff should just be an extra bonus not a main part of an upgrade that is just wrong.
 
Was looking forward to x3, but for me to upgrade at the UK price is a dilemma
all that is in it for me is the colour customization and the melodyne integration which will be great,
but I have addictive Drums, and use melda plugins so I have all I will ever need,
their just does not seem anything else in it that I personally use, I think they have messed up this time, if I was to put all my upgrade money together and the price I paid for sonar producer v6, then consider the things that are now also being taken away, I don't get much for my money over all these years.
 
(1) I just wish they has upgraded the whole act thing which is rather limited, so I cant utilise my midi Channels on my keyboard,or have  abetter system overall act sucks.
(2) added the option to have vst parameters in step sequencer,
(3) sorted out audio warp quantise, as this again is more geared for straight and simple drum beats  and simple stuff, but is just useless for manually quantising / sampling complex stuff, I can never get the markers to drag as they should do, they are always constrained even within what should be normal, just a simple add warp marker and move option would be nice that actually works, I have tried many times since V6 , yet very limited for the simple warping I mention, I just don't understand the reasoning or logic in this.
(4) Add the option to also time stretch midi events by dragging the edge like you can do with audio event, so much creativity lost here
(5) Drum maps but I would like too see a simpler system, where you can just add you own name in the roll and it shows up on the notes with the note name, so I don't have to keep scrolling back to see what hits are what, then you can just save that, but again we have over kill for a simple job.
(6) The list goes on, as I am sure you all have ideas on what should have been added fixed or improved.
 
I just don't understand, why cakewalk are not committed to improving the important basics, cakewalk has always been geared up for the instrument player, band/ vocalist etc.
but as a remixer masher upper, dance producer, it always overlooks many important (little) things, this is why it cant compete and it don't by comparisons with the other top DAWs for people like me,  yes it has some great stuff, but yet it lacks refinement,  its not a lot to ask, I just wish they would think about the other type of user, I am as always stuck in limbo, let's face it sonar is so great on the visual, and as I always say the inline piano roll is fantastic for my type of producing /editing and why I hold on! one thing so powerful, although even that has its clumsy side.
 
its  a lot of money for just a couple of things, at the moment I am on the fence, do I hold on too my £180 towards bitwig studio, or Upgrade now and get some!! use now, but x3 just don't seem worth it this time, although I guess the couple of things added could make my life a bit better, just not to an extent it will make that much difference overall, what a dilemma I have, hungry for these gestures in X3, but these things will be short lived and taken for granted, as its nothing new in the DAW world and the things that matter more, how long will we have to wait, will cakewalk ever go back and refine things, as with many off asking for these things, I just wish cakewalk would say yes definitely on our list to look into now we have ouR new look etc, this is what I don't like about cakewalk, with other daws you can generally tell by past upgrade as to the thought the development teams put in to considering things the users ask for and improvements, but despite a few of you saying how great cakewalk are at feature request/ improvements, the fact be they are no where to be seen in that department, not even a forum post saying great idea or not feasible etc .  that's is all I ask really, and the state of this in the future is going to determine weather I hang on to sonar in anticipation of the future, or stop installing it and tempting myself with what could be ( I think the chance of this happening are slim now by past record of cakewalk back tracking stuff that needs to be done etc. before adding any more candy ) what are their plans in this area ???? this is one area that should not be locked up like the X files. Just my hopes and thoughts not hating just wishing it could be better where it counts, so I don't have to keep jumping ship , I always dabble, but always get fed up with sonar its great at the starting post, but looses as the DAW race continues, but I do love staring at its GUI lol despite being a bit clunky its nice and appeasing.

Well put. I also don't see the cost benefit in upgrading, it already had most of what it has and has some bug fixes, the comping does seam nice.
As I'm writing this I'm just thinking, I wonder if this was supposed to be an X2 update but then they started talking with Gibson so they had to change a little more than they thought they would, ie: dropping the Roland stuff, changing other plugins to make up for it... so they said they would changed the name and charge more to look better for the buyout... but no matter it is what it is, I'll get along with X2 and spend what I would have spent and on X3 and get Samplitude Pro-X Suite :)

Well you know I'm sure they were in talks for a while and they're not going to just sit around doing nothing. So I do agree that it does deserve the upgrade moniker. It's just not enough of an upgrade for me, that's how good I thought/think X2 is, it just could have used an update or two, as was the norm. If one update is the new norm I'll just wait till x4, with all the Gibson integrations next year.

That's, a lot, of, commas, and run-on, sentences, and I, would, like that, fixed, please.
 
KEv

“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Dave, did I say I was displeased? If that's how I came off, my bad.
I tried to express my curiosity. I love using Sonar, but my decision to upgrade any software is based on the changes that were made. If I can't see a comprehensive list of changes and fixes, I can not make an informed decision. I don't upgrade solely for new bells and whistles, I leave that for the ADHD consumers. I need to know what was changed and how this will impact my work. A marketing piece saying 100+ enhancements does not tell me very much.

I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand there is no denying that X3 is an awesome update and well worth the price. They've done a fantastic job. However there is always room for improvement and I still think there are some niggling little fixes and new features that could be added without too much development (i.e. nothing as involved or complicated as ARA integration or VST3 support). Little things that could be, you know, 'tidied up' as it were, for instance those long menus of automation parameters (and drum maps) where you have to click the up/down arrows to scroll slowly through them all (or press the first letter of what you want if you know what you're looking for) - I mean just let us use the scroll wheel lol.....and of course better organization and labeling of automation lanes which I've mentioned before. I'd also like to see more song arranging/organization tools, for instance some kind of clip library like the clip lists in Pro Tools. Hardly reinventing the wheel, but very useful stuff which would make composition and arrangement feel a lot more organized. And ultimately if Cake are going to want to attract more of the young EDM crowd (and who wouldn't want a bigger slice of that market) then I feel there's probably a lot more they could be doing to introduce the kind of sequencing and arranging features found on EDM favorites like Maschine. But who knows, maybe they do have stuff like this in the pipeline - we're certainly not going to get it all in one upgrade. 
 
And of course we all have a duty to submit feature requests and bug fixes - I know I've been lacking in that respect...some of the above I may have submitted, most of it I probably haven't. The problem is I can't even remember lol....I have vague memories of doing that sort of stuff. I really ought to keep track of it 

burkek
That's, a lot, of, commas, and run-on, sentences, and I, would, like that, fixed, please.
 
KEv

thanks for that note burkek, I must try harder  f - , if you wish to take the micky mouse out of some ones poor grammar that may be a result of a hard life at school with bully boys etc, and not getting the best start in their home life, then that is your short coming and very shallow dude !!, but I will forgive and forget, was it really worth the effort to post that in a patronising way.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 Cakewalk is a small company and we have very finite resources so we have to spend our time wisely..

well my apologies I am sorry, I thought cakewalk where giants in the DAW world with enough money to get things done and some.

>>why devise something then not improve it for the better, or fix older issues,
But that is exactly what has been done in X3. Plugins and comping, by far two of the most commonly used areas have had massive attention and many old issues have been fixed or are not applicable anymore.
SONAR is a massive program and its humanly impossible to address every enhancement request in any one cycle so we have to prioritize.
 
>> I thought cakewalk where giants in the DAW world with enough money to get things done and some.
I guess we should take that as a compliment to our skills :) We may be big in the DAW world but we are a tiny company - most developers from other companies I speak to are shocked by the amount we do with our resources. If we had all that money to and resources to do stuff we probably wouldn't be getting acquired by Gibson, eh? :)
 
Regarding lists of fixes, its actually hard to enumerate deterministically since sometimes there are sweeping changes that change the behavior of the program and make old issues no longer applicable. Also sometimes issues are logged and fixed within a cycle that may or may not apply to prior versions. However with the next update we will be listing a large number of issues that we found in our database to be resolved. This is by no means the entire list but it should give people a better idea idea of the areas of change.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
So you don't think a full blown new comping mode, support for 3 new standards VST3, ARA and Gobbler, Prochannel improvements, redesigned color customization, as well as huge plugin workflow enhancements do not constitute a massive upgrade? All of these features impact pretty much every user in some way and were picked because they are not niche features but solid useful tools for every DAW user. Regarding the 3'rd party stuff they are 100% value adds. They take zero development time from us, other than some minor support issues and bug fixes and obviously release management. So its not like taking those out would have magically bought other features you wanted. 
 
If not you have some pretty unrealistic assumptions about what goes into building software. Every one has different ideas about what would be ideal features for their specific workflow. We pick features that would have the most impact on our larger user base. If anything I think X3 hits home here much more than any other version since it tackles the basics - recording, editing, plugins, and customization. Most users would agree that this is very close to what the majority of people wanted. Cakewalk is a small company and we have very finite resources so we have to spend our time wisely..

+100!!

I would not consider Studio because of plug-ins that are locked to the Producer series. It is not worth $50 to find out a few months down the road that R-Mix won't work in X3 Studio.

I do understand what you are saying Noel, and do appreciate, and sorry to come across maybe a little blunt in parts of my post
and for many comping is vital so glad that is finally here for many, but some of the improvements or fixes I feel in certain areas could have been done way back, many years ago, I was only voices the opinions just as many have as that don't judging from the posted I read over the years that have been constructive.
 
I just personally more so get a little frustrated but this is just my personal take on it, its some of the smaller bugs and things
I know it may only seem small and irrelevant to some, one being over the years all I would ask for is to be able to stretch and drag out midi event timing from the edge of an event a like you can with audio events, year in year out from v6, nothing big, but it is quite comment practice in most major daws and something so simple can be so effective in its results to come up with new patterns and rhythms, and all though only one wish from  a few, its implemented for audio, so baffled at why not midi at same time, important detail missing and falling on deaf ears so to speak.
It would be nice in the future now the major over hall is in place, that a step back could be taken to also consider such things, I don't personally want stupid things or gimmicks just the extra attention to detail and these little tweaks or improvements, I never suggest selfish things, only things that as little as they are do have a real value overall, like is say my own worse nightmare wanting it all. I don't believe in that slogan about bloat ware when it comes to editing details and working enhancements, it is never enough only technology advancements or getting in-depth with how a program works can dictate that.
 
I guess I will have to be more constructive in the wish list section, with more detail or diagrams etc, so I will get noticed, It would be great if their where a few more interactive moderators, as seen over recent period, it just gives us  a little more faith, knowing that their are go between moderator's that can do all the relaying back and too with user requests, I would not expect to have all answered as would others, but if its feasible idea, nothing wrong with a yeh! that sounds good, we will look into the principle idea, or a no its impractical etc,
A few of the big things like comping has come up and had a cakewalk member jump in, but for me its the detail that defines the program then the big things, so one can feel overlooked.
 
Sorry for sounding like a bit of a buffoon in parts lol, I guess I was playing devils advocate to get a reaction, But you answered and I now have better understanding of cakewalk from your words I appreciate that, its just good to know their is more forum communication its so important, I really do hate to love sonar but I do for so many reasons too. I guess I will have to put my money where my mouth is and get some good music done with sonar, instead of worrying about what I don't have or need and jumping from Daw to Daw for what it has, no daw is an Island yet lol but they are getting closer, I am going to have to compose my thoughts and decide on the X3 upgrade, I do want it, I was just hoping on  a working demo by now, just to make sure the jump is needed for me at this time and I will benefit greatly enough at this time.
 
Thanks

I merely meant that it would be simple to find out now, rather than months down the road.

Subjacent
 
do I hold on too my £180 towards bitwig studio,

When Bitwig first announced they generated a lot of excitement and it looked like it was going to be a fantastic DAW. These days I get the impression that it is vaporware and that you will be waiting quite awhile for it...
 
Regards,