File/Folder Structure is completely messed up

Hello All....Long story short my rig was built by my buddy with zero input from me as I had zero experience at the time.
Now that my feet are wet I see that he did a poor job of setting up the DAW and associated data.  I apologize for the laundry list of questions...They are all somewhat related and I wanted to just put it all out here instead of creating a million threads :)  Please help answer/comment as many as you can.  Truly appreciate you taking the time to read my issue!
 
The Issues:
-Doesn't appear that my DAW/Programs are running on the faster HDD (my C drive) and other data on the slower (E) drive.  In fact it looks like DAW data/vst data etc. is all mixed up between the drives
-32 bit and 64 bit is totally mixed up.  64bit VSTs are sitting in 32 bit folders and vice versa.
 
The questions:
1) I seem to run well enough given my older PC with 4 gigs of RAM.  Is there any harm or major disadvantage to a) not having the proper separation between programs/data between my 2 Hard Drives  b)Can this be fixed in any reasonable way?  Should it be fixed or is it not worth the trouble?
2) Same questions as above concerning the mixing up of 32/64 bit VSTs/apps.  Is there a real harm to having them mixed up as they are?  Why is there a real need to separate in the first place?
3) Where does the data go when setting up a new VST?  I know the .dll file goes in the VSTplugin folder but does all of the data go there too?  If an app is only a .dll file - Can I put that into it's own folder before dropping into the VST directory (to keep things neat i would prefer every VST have it's own folder if possible)
4) If a new VST plugin comes in both 32 and 64bit - Should I install both versions?  If so, it's just a matter of the .dll going to each folder and then the program data sits somewhere else where both .dll's can see it?
5) When I select "insert soft synth" - What is the line that separates the list?  Is that supposed to mean 32/64 bit? Why in this list do I see all of my plugins.....and then a line that says "vstplugins" that expands to a few more in my arsenal?  Why do some VSTs expand to select x64 or x86 when others are just listed more than once (example - I have Rapture "above the line", Rapture "below the line" and also Rapture LE below the line with the expanded selection for 32/64)?
 
Last, it appears my buddy didn't install the Rapture expansion correctly.  I can see that I have the downloads but Rapture does not see them.  When I click the programs field it looks in "C>Program Data>Cakewalk Rapture (in there I have EG, MIDI, Programs, SG, Sample Pool folders).  The expansion pack data however is sitting in E>Program Files>Cakewalk>Rapture (in there I have LFO waveforms, Multisamples, Programs, Resources, Tunings, a .dll and .exe file).  How can I get these expansion packs to the right place?
 
if you wish to see an ugly rough map of all of my folders you can see it here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/My-noob-threadwhere-do-I-begin-m2938786.aspx#2980549
 
Again....very sorry for the overload of confusion.  I've been reading everywhere but still scratching my head and frankly just worried that my setup is doomed in some way.
Thanks so much for reading!
 
 
 
 
 

haha would be nice but sadly this is not an option for me  :(

Yea, uninstall SONAR, de-frag and reinstall it.  Your simplest bet is to go w/ the standard installation and let SONAR handle the where's of installs.  In my C: drive I have Cake folders and Steinberg (for some 3rd party VSTs).  All the Cake vsts go in Cake subfolders, as well as some other vsts (I'm not sure the logic behind those placements, but it works).
 
Your C: drive should be for programs (and large libraries).  It doesn't have to be the fastest, although 7200 rpms is nice.
Your E: drive should be for Projects and should be fast.  this is where SONAR streams off audio (and video files should go here, too).  7200 rpm is standard for this drive.  You can also put streaming sampler samples here.
 
@

seed
thanks all please keep the thoughts flowing
 
as stated a re-install is just not possible.  my buddy built and put the software on my PC and sadly we are no longer in contact with each other.  what i have now is pretty much the cards i've been dealt so i was just checking to see if there was any wiggle room.
 
i have plenty of plugins i can try uninstall/reinstalling though

 
I wasn't suggesting that you re-install Sonar - just your plug-ins. 
 
 

seed 
-so when i'm asked where to put the data...where does it go?  can i put everything in the same folder under the VSTplugin folder - or does it have to be separated?

 
Yes, you can put everything in one folder - you can even create your own folder and put all VSTs in there. For example, I have two folders on my C drive, VST32 and VST64, and that's where I put my plugins.
 
If the plug-in is just a .dll file, you simply can move it to the folder you want to use. If the plug-in uses a Windows installer you will need to pay attention to the installer's dialog windows - one of them with ask you where the VST should be located. At this point you can change it to the folder you want to use.
 
When you have your plug-ins where you want them, open the Plug-In Manager in Sonar and point it to your plug-in folder, then re-scan your plug-ins. That's how Sonar will know where they are.
 
 

seed 
-how can i get the rapture expansion packs as mentioned above moved to the correct place?

Again, I would re-install the expansion packs. If you cannot do that, there is an advanced way to do it but unless you consider yourself an advanced Windows user I would recommend that you just leave them where they are to make sure things don't get screwed up.

Seems your in a bit of a pickle with all of this.
 
I agree with a consensus that a clean install is the best solution - can you explain why it's not an option?
 
If it's because your one time partner has the disks and he has installed it on another machine, then I'm afraid this is against Cakewalk's TOS - you are in efffect running an illegal copy - just something to be aware of.
 
If you've got the disks (or the download) then a clean reinstall is not only possible but highly desirable.
 
Please don't take this the wrong way = I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just curious why a reinstall is not possible

i honestly don't know.
when he built my PC he did give me a bunch of discs but a month or two ago I looked through that stack and didn't see Cakewalk.  i could have lost them as there are other things i have on my PC i don't have backup for either and well my office has been quite messy at times over the year :-/
 
aside from all of that....i just fear I would screw it up and don't want to potentially mess something up that IS working for me today.
 
i figure my next PC i'll have enough smarts to at least handle a new DAW setup.  so for now concern is just over any tweaks i can do to possible clean things up and even more important - how i go about adding new VSTs going forward?  namely - where does all of the program data go (i.e. all of the stuff that might come with the .dll file) 
 
and how can i get these rapture expansion packs to the right place?
 

seed
"It's best to put the application files in the default locations in "Program Files" (or "Program Files x86") and just change the location of the VST to your custom VST folder"
 
so when you say "the VST" you mean simply the .dll file?
i'm sorry if i'm being confusing.  basically i just want to add new synths/plugins/apps etc.  they always have the .dll file and then many times "the other stuff".  you are saying put the .dll file into the vstplugins folder and then put everything else into Program Files?

 
When there is an installation package for a plug-in, changing the VST location usually just puts the .dll file in your custom location, although sometimes there are some additional files that get placed in the VST location as well. Then yes, everything else (like application files) gets installed in the usual Program Files location.
 
 

seedwith rapture (being the noob i am) i've only played with the programs so far.  i can see by looking at the expansion pack data that I should have extra programs to choose from and they just aren't there.
i would be tempted to just copy and paste this stuff into the rapture folder that IS being used but i gather i would mess things up there ;)

 
Actually, if you have the disk space, you could try copying (not moving) the expansion pack sample files to where the default Rapture sample files are located. It's not the best solution but considering your situation it may get you going.

Be clear too that VST and DX plugins are 2 different things.
 
VST plugins give you flexibility during installation but DX plugins usually don't and for the most part stay where the installer puts them
 
Most of your plugins however will be VST's with the caveat that now there are also VST3 plugins to go along with the VST2. A lot for you to learn.

When you install plugins, they not only place a .dll file in a VST folder, they often write several entries to your registry regarding the install. Therefore, it follows that moving the .dll breaks the registry entries and can make it hard (or indeed impossible) for the program to find, and interact, with the relevant files.
 
In this case it may be best to let sleeping dogs lie, and look towards creating a better install routine for your next computer. There are some very computer literate people in this forum that would be only too happy to help you with a new install if you require. I'm not sure this thread is the best one for this question, but others may chime in and help with that.

 
Your Rapture is looking pretty similar to mine. Mine was split out by the Installer so your locations are valid. I'll explain a bit more (from what I know).
 
C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Rapture (for x64, x32 in "Program Files (x86))
- Documentaion
- LFO Waveforms
- Multisamples
- Resources
- Tunings
--- Rapture.dll (DXi or VSTi (?))
--- Rapture.exe (Standalone)
 
(I've got my VSTs (x64 and x32) out under a common VST location. Can't remember if I copied them or prompted during install).
 
C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Rapture
- EG
- MIDI
- Programs
--- Elements
--- Expansion Pack
--- programs.lst
- Sample Pool
- SG
 
Expansions will come as Installs or Unzip/Copies. They'll typically come with instructions but depending on what they have in them .prog are deployed under Programs, .wav and .sfz are deployed under Multisamples.
To make your new Expansions visible you've got to regenerate the programs.lst file by opening the Program Browser from within Rapture and pressing F5.
 
Do you have the Documentation folder? Better/more info in both the .chm and .pdf. They explain the File Organization and more ... briefly:
 
Documentation\
- Documentation folder. Release Notes, User Manual and Registration information.
LFO Waveforms\
- LFO Waveforms folder. All factory LFO waveforms. User-defined waverforms can be stored here as well.
MIDI\
- MIDI folder. All MIDI Learn data.
Multisamples\
- Multisamples folder. All factory wavetables, multisample definitions and sample collections.
Programs\
- Programs folder. All factory presets/programs. Rapture will point to this folder on Save...Program.
Programs\Elements\
- Elements folder. All factory elements. Rapture will point to this folder on Save...Element.
Sample Pool\
- Sample Pool folder. Project/Demo song specific samples.
Tunings\
- Tunings folder. All microtuning and alternate tuning files.

Bear in mind a couple important points with simply "moving files." There are pointer references to file locations both within SONAR (and other applications) as well as the registry. If these pointers are not also updated, then randomly moving files can potentially get you from a "working state" to a "non-working state."
 
If things are functional, I would be hesitant to advise making things "pretty" just for that purpose. I would highly recommend imaging/backup before you head down this path, as registry entry changes can cause similar issues as this all plays out for you.

A sleep has prompted my memory re the C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Rapture\Rapture.dll. I'm pretty sure that's the DXi because the install prompts for location of the VSTi which I put under my common C:\DAW_Plugins. (I've also seen that .dll called via Process Explorer handle search when the DXi is active).
 
There was a trick here. The x32 and x64 installs were separate, only prompting for a the common VST location above and deploying the VST to \Rapture\Rapture.dll beneath. Yes, same name as the DXi (different directory). I did the x32 install then renamed the VST subdir to Rapture32. I then did the x64 install and renamed the VST subdir to Rapture64. I had to repeat the process for patch updates (renaming the relevant bittedness back into place temporarily for the update).
 
That way I have both 32bit and 64bit VSTs. (and Standalones, and DXis).

Oh OK - sorry, I'm a noob ... it didn't like the link. I'll read the rules before possible repost (not spam).
 

Tee Hee. I appreciate the positive feedback.
 
I've been and am a regular on the Steam Sonar and MC6T forums. Just poking my nose this way.
 
It was actually the Steam release that got me looking under the hood of Rapture, but initially Dimension. I had bought an Expansion Pack that only deployed into 32bit, under Dimension. I couldn't have that ... so got it working in 64bit mode.
 
I've picked up a thing or two and enjoy helping and solving genuine issues - esp those I have some experience with or feel I can make a contribution to ... and the odd bit of suspect humour and trivia :P

shellstaX thank you so much!
posting your folder contents has really sealed the deal here and I'm pretty sure that after I make a few moves I'll have the expansions running.
 
thing is - i'm not going to attempt this for a month or two as my uber paranoia says "don't mess with rapture until your first tune is completed and rendered to audio"
 
i just figure with the remote chance i could "break" rapture....i should use patience while i finish a track that is using it
 
 
 
 
 
last night i took all of my "loose" .dll and associated files in my vstplugins folder and created a folder for each which i then dragged them into.  this ended up removing the "vstplugins" line from my instrument/effect list and now every VST is showing up without expanding anything.
 
now whether i could have dragged them into their PROPER 32 or 64 bit folders is a different story
i did not attempt that ;)
 
i peeped the plugin manager and saw how you can manipulate and create template layouts.
i wonder is this something i could also do in windows like i did with the above?  just create a "reverb" folder and then dump all of my reverbs into that one....and so on.
i know that grouping this way via sonar is probably best.....but via windows would surely be easier!  anyone ever try this?