cityrat
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Rapture vs Absynth
Ok - so I will download the demos. But was wondering if anyone who has these what their opinions were?
Looking mainly for the ambient, but textural synth sound. Both seem very capable. Rapture has for me more appeal with the CW name and reliability than NI but then I dont have any NI stuff (I do have DimPro).
So any comments are welcome and appreciated. Tell me what you like, dont lilke.
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cryophonik
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/02 15:05:27
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I have Rapture, but not Absynth. I got Rapture at a great price and, since it's a CW product, it works pretty much flawlessly in my versions of Sonar (6.2.1) and P5v2. I checked out Absynth before buying Rapture, but the higher price and all the compatibility issues that people seemed to be having with NI products and Sonar/P5 turned me off. On the other hand, I use Battery 3 as my primary drum VST and have virtually no problems with it. HTH.
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/02 19:25:30
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Rapture and Abby are nothing alike. They are two different worlds. Rapture is more Techno, indrustral, um, electronic sounding, while Abby is long evolving, movie bg sounding stuff. It's like saying "guitar vs bass". However, if you are looking for "ambient, but textural", then you want Abby no doubt - and will be a little disappointed with Rapture (Rapture is great, but it's not really for that). As far as NI goes, I own 3/4 of everything they sell (including Abby 3, and 4), snd they are GREAT products. Another plus for Absynth, is the Kore browser.. I can't even start to tell you how much time you will save with that. BTW, yes I own both. And I think Rapture is an awsome synth. Rapture I think is a little easier to learn, as in tweaking sounds, but both allow alot of tweaking. Like I say, I love both synths, but for what you are looking for, Abby is the way to go.
post edited by Ognis - 2007/04/02 19:37:29
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rjt
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/02 20:24:24
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I have Absynth, but not Rapture. (Sorry, I have Z3TA+ and even though I know there are differences, I didn't think I needed it.) Absynth is pretty special for textural, cinematic, ambient, new age music. Does most synthy pads etc. pretty well, but texures and ambiences and drones etc are unbelievable. It doesn't do "realistic" very well but a sort of "emulation" of realism. It has waveshaping, several filters per voice (if you want, it is a semi-modular architecture), granular synthesis, messing with samples etc. There is a new feature in 4 which is wave morphing.... not just comvining two waves, but moving set points in them to radically alter the sound, giving you an infinite variety of waves "on board." I have had no issues with Absynth and Sonar since maybe Absynth 2. As Ognis said, the patch browser is amazing. Anyway, it is a very cool synth. But don't get me wrong, I love Rene's products... I actually bought Pentagon before they started including it in Sonar!
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cityrat
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 07:01:04
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thanks guys (and gals - just kidding ognis  ) - really appreciate the comments. I downloaded Absynth last night and played with it for awhile. Pretty impressive. I'll need more time to compare but I do like the way the browser works. I thought Rene mentioned future improvements in Rapture too... Sounds like nobody is having issues in Sonar or P5 with either - thats a plus.
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syrath
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 09:25:35
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Absynth suffers from one problem in both Sonar and Project5. Although Sonar has an option round it, P5 has a not so reliable workaround . On stopping a project playing in either, by default, p5 and sonar reset the midi controllers. Absynth has a good many patches that have the CC1 controller set at something other than zero. This means that frequently you will have a presets sound completely change the ssecond you hit stop. Sonar has a per project5 setting where you can turn off the zero controller on project stop option.
Project 5 can be worked round by latching the automation.
That being said I love Absynth 4, I hate Native Instruments though, the customer service severely lacks. From your post Absynth sounds more like what you require. However if you dont have Dimension Pro, you might want to consider that, as its quite capable of producing similar pad sounds/soundscape sounds.
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 09:41:55
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ORIGINAL: syrath
Absynth suffers from one problem in both Sonar and Project5. Although Sonar has an option round it, P5 has a not so reliable workaround . On stopping a project playing in either, by default, p5 and sonar reset the midi controllers. Absynth has a good many patches that have the CC1 controller set at something other than zero. This means that frequently you will have a presets sound completely change the ssecond you hit stop. Sonar has a per project5 setting where you can turn off the zero controller on project stop option.
Project 5 can be worked round by latching the automation.
That being said I love Absynth 4, I hate Native Instruments though, the customer service severely lacks. From your post Absynth sounds more like what you require. However if you dont have Dimension Pro, you might want to consider that, as its quite capable of producing similar pad sounds/soundscape sounds.
This must be a machine spsfic issue, because I have never experenced it. I mean, I belive you, but it didn't happen to me on version 3, and hasn't happened to me on version 4 either. Then again, I never had the probs with Battery 3's master volume changing on me, so who knows, maybe I'm just lucky.
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syrath
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 10:38:02
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IIRC ognis you roll your own sounds. It applies to some of the presets. Absynth 4 has another workaround in that you can more easily change which parameters can be controlled and which controller controls them, so removing CC1 from the list is quite a bit easier. I noticed it because I rely a bit on presets that I then alter later.
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rjt
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 10:43:39
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I have not had the issue with controllers resetting. The patches stay the same for me.
Unfortunately, I have found that the product support from many companies is really bad. NI has a forum like this one (and it can be very helpful.) In their defense, NI does seem to find the programming errors and fix them....albeit in their time. I just treated myself to Massive and havn't found problems with it so far. I know I used to have problems with NI products and their service. I think both have improved somewhat. Just my 2 cents.
Take care
Talk is cheap; supply outweighs the demand. Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people look bright before you hear them speak. Jerry Jones bought the Dallas Cowboys, Andy Reid owns them!!
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cryophonik
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 10:46:48
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So, Ognis and other Absynth owners,
Would you recommend Absynth to those of us that also have Spectrasonics Atmosphere, or is it too similar? Granted, they are two very different methods of synthesis, but are the end products (i.e., sounds the produce) too similar? I ask because Absynth has always sounded very intriguing to me, but I already own 40+ soft synths and 5 hard synths and don't really need any more (my wife would definitely agree). And every time I hear a demo of the Absynth sounds, it just reminds me of Atmosphere. But every time I'm standing there in Guitar Center staring at the Absynth box on the wall behind the counter, I get closer and closer to giving into the temptation anyway...
Yeah, maybe it's time to download the demo, which, of course, means that I'll probably be buying it.
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b rock
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 11:12:53
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Re: Stuart's (syrath's) observation. Currently in Project5, you either find a way to avoid or work around the reset messages. There are other, more elaborate routes to take as well. I'll post them in the spirit of diagnostics or other considerations. Test Conditions: One transport click; at least one active track containing one pattern with one note. The resulting MIDI messages are displayed here in reverse order of occurence. Ch 16 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 16 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 16 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 16 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 15 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 15 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 15 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 15 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 14 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 14 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 14 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 14 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 13 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 13 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 13 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 13 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 12 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 12 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 12 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 12 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 11 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 11 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 11 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 11 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 10 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 10 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 10 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 10 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 09 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 09 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 09 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 09 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 08 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 08 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 08 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 08 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 07 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 07 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 07 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 07 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 06 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 06 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 06 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 06 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 05 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 05 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 05 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 05 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 04 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 04 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 04 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 04 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 03 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 03 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 03 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 03 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 02 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 02 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 02 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 02 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
Ch 01 Channel Aftertouch: 0 Time: 0
Ch 01 Pitchwheel: 0 Time: 0
Ch 01 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time: 0
Ch 01 Controller 1 -> 0 Mod Wheel Time: 0
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 11:13:51
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Hey cryophonik, just saw the other thread  Can't answer though, because I've never even heard of Spectrasonics Atmosphere 
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 11:16:00
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IIRC ognis you roll your own sounds. It applies to some of the presets. Syrath, you are correct, that may be why I didnt notice. b rock, I dont see what that is showing, everything is at 0 ?
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b rock
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 11:36:09
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I dont see what that is showing, everything is at 0 ? Yes. Everything that was at another current value in aftertouch, pitch bend, mod wheel, and sustain pedal has been reset to zero. How that affects a given situation will be synth-, preset-, controller keyboard-, project-, and automation-specific.
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 16:34:49
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ORIGINAL: b rock
I dont see what that is showing, everything is at 0 ? Yes. Everything that was at another current value in aftertouch, pitch bend, mod wheel, and sustain pedal has been reset to zero. How that affects a given situation will be synth-, preset-, controller keyboard-, project-, and automation-specific.
Oh, okay, I thought you were tring to show how certin things were getting stuck with a certin value. My fault for being lazy, and not reading your entire post
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Nick P
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/03 20:58:04
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ORIGINAL: Ognis
Rapture and Abby are nothing alike. They are two different worlds. Rapture is more Techno, indrustral, um, electronic sounding, while Abby is long evolving, movie bg sounding stuff. It's like saying "guitar vs bass".
However, if you are looking for "ambient, but textural", then you want Abby no doubt - and will be a little disappointed with Rapture (Rapture is great, but it's not really for that). As far as NI goes, I own 3/4 of everything they sell (including Abby 3, and 4), snd they are GREAT products.
Another plus for Absynth, is the Kore browser.. I can't even start to tell you how much time you will save with that.
BTW, yes I own both. And I think Rapture is an awsome synth. Rapture I think is a little easier to learn, as in tweaking sounds, but both allow alot of tweaking. Like I say, I love both synths, but for what you are looking for, Abby is the way to go.
I totally disagree with this. As a sidenote, and this is just my opinion, but we are allowed to voice opinions respectfully I believe, using cute little nicknames for products has to be the most irritating thing I read on these forums. Are you having "Abby" over for coffee or something. If you're having financial problems will "Abby" loan you a few bucks? Have you seen the Garmin commerical with the guy falling in love with his GPS? This is only one step less irritating than people calling their PC a "puter". Okay, that rant aside, here's one thing to remember, you are also purchasing a company and their customer support. Although I have had good experience with NI, you will not find a company with better customer support than Cakewalk. As regards the instruments, there is no way that Rapture can't do all of that (now way-overused and sounding like throw-together TV music) ambient film pad crap (the crap that real film composers eschew in favor of actually knowing how to write pads for strings with notes that move ever so slightly, etc). Here's my challenge: Bring on "Abby's" best patches and I bring B Rock to the table with his Rapture programming as a response. Rapture is a fabulous synth, with deep, deep programming capabilities, the ability to sound "film-score ambient" for days, and lots of training and tutorial information (does that exist for "Abby"?) To summarize, don't waste your time with me-too products like "Abby", which you will wind up using the same presets as everyone else. Get Rapture, learn how to program it, get all of the available soundsets, and wail! Then, and only then, consider Absynth when you've exhausted Rapture's sonic possibilities (whenever that is).
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Ognis
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 02:08:38
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Nick P...
I used to think you were a good guy, now I know your an idiot...
buy.. any info, email me, this guy really ruineded it
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syrath
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 02:49:03
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ORIGINAL: Nick P
Okay, that rant aside, here's one thing to remember, you are also purchasing a company and their customer support. Although I have had good experience with NI, you will not find a company with better customer support than Cakewalk. As regards the instruments, there is no way that Rapture can't do all of that (now way-overused and sounding like throw-together TV music) ambient film pad crap (the crap that real film composers eschew in favor of actually knowing how to write pads for strings with notes that move ever so slightly, etc).
Here's my challenge: Bring on "Abby's" best patches and I bring B Rock to the table with his Rapture programming as a response.
Not exactly a fair competition. If B Rock applied is programming to Abysnth then it would be. Unless of course you want to compare presets with presets.
Rapture is a fabulous synth, with deep, deep programming capabilities, the ability to sound "film-score ambient" for days, and lots of training and tutorial information (does that exist for "Abby"?)
Actually yes it does. There is the Absynth 3 tutorial DVD , which is very applicable to absynth 4. As well as quite a bit of resources out there along with the Biolabs expansion packs.
To summarize, don't waste your time with me-too products like "Abby", which you will wind up using the same presets as everyone else. Get Rapture, learn how to program it, get all of the available soundsets, and wail! Then, and only then, consider Absynth when you've exhausted Rapture's sonic possibilities (whenever that is).
It would take you as long to exhause Absynths possibilities as you would Raptures. For you to imply different just shows your ignorance of Absynth , rather than the superiority of Rapture. Having tried out the demo of Rapture, I would love to have it in my synth collection, and I hope to have it soon. That being said, I see no reason why it is any better than Absynth. Its just different. (oh and better supported)
post edited by syrath - 2007/04/04 02:52:56
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Nick P
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 05:20:45
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ORIGINAL: Ognis
Nick P...
I used to think you were a good guy, now I know your an idiot...
buy.. any info, email me, this guy really ruineded it
Right on, bro. Free speech rules 
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Nick P
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 05:27:06
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ORIGINAL: syrath
It would take you as long to exhause Absynths possibilities as you would Raptures. For you to imply different just shows your ignorance of Absynth , rather than the superiority of Rapture.
Stu, this is true. I now realize this was a loaded question for me. First of all I have no experience with Absynth, so I shouldn't have gone sticking my nose in this discussion. Second, the whole concept of people coming on forums asking other members to rate one synth against another is a losing proposition all around. It's sort of like saying "I've tried chocolate and I've tried vanilla, will someone tell me which one I should choose?" Like, duh, choose the one you like best. I still can't figure out how people expect other people to choose something so personal as a particular instrument for them. Yet these "A" versus "B" discussions continue to pervade the forums. So here is my re-thought answer: I don't know anything about Absynth, but I own Rapture, have limited experience with it, but can say it has a wonderful sound to my ears, and I've heard deep, deep programming possibilities by simply flipping through the presets and reading posts and tutorials from experts like B Rock and the synth's designer Rene. I don't think anyone would be dissapointed in acquiring it.
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cityrat
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 07:21:03
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rate one synth against another is a losing proposition all around. It's sort of like saying "I've tried chocolate and I've tried vanilla, will someone tell me which one I should choose?" Like, duh, choose the one you like best. I still can't figure out how people expect other people to choose something so personal as a particular instrument for them Did you READ my very first post where I said I was also going to dl and try them out for myself? WTF is wrong with soliciting opinions ? I of course realize that some will respond with crap .... Whenever I post asking for comparisons I am looking for the full range the unknown. IE - is there something with the support that is good/bad (answered above by a few), is there particular issues with SONAR/P5 (answered above or at least brought up for me to take a look at). I also didnt know about the Absynth tutorial DVD or ever heard of BioLabs expansion pack. That said - Ive been comparing the two and am impressed by both. Having Dimension Pro, I think Rapture would be a very complete addition, however I really like some of the things in Absynth (WAVE view, the envelopes) that make it more "fun" and more "visual" to manipulate / mangle the sound. But then I am not familiar with NI as a company vs the know VERY GOOD product support from CW (plus Vista 32/64 support for the future etc). So - Im still looking. I agree they are not the same for sure. Can they sound alike - yeah, sometimes, sometimes not. Whats important is can they sound like what "I" want and how easy it is for me (not bRock or anyone else) to get that sound - which means of course that it comes down to my own opions etc. But at the same time I appreciate all the comments and opinions above! Absynth, Abby, ...Abney .... isnt that the name of someones band or something???
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rjt
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 10:43:40
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ORIGINAL: Nick P
To summarize, don't waste your time with me-too products like "Abby", which you will wind up using the same presets as everyone else. Get Rapture, learn how to program it, get all of the available soundsets, and wail! Then, and only then, consider Absynth when you've exhausted Rapture's sonic possibilities (whenever that is).
Fortunately, nicknaming synths doesn't bother me a bit. Also, we may want to turn this around. Absynth was around a lot longer than Rapture. I guess that makes Rapture the "me too" product. In addition, most of the reviews which I have read of Rapture, which are favorable (since when wouldn't Rene make a great synth?) have suggested it is best for techno/dance types of music (although there are probably reviews which don't say that as well, it is just my experience.) Finally, discussing synths is no different than people who like movies, scotch, roses etc. discussing their preferences. We all realize (I hope) they are preferences and you often get something from the discussion. I ought to know, I discuss football quite a bit.... talk about opinions!!! Anyway, I also reproduced the zeroing of controllers in Abby. I never noticed it before. I called up about 10 patches and noted that the mod wheel, in one patch, was reset to zero when I restarted the song. I will explore this some more. Thanks for pointing it out. Take care
post edited by rjt - 2007/04/04 10:47:07
Talk is cheap; supply outweighs the demand. Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people look bright before you hear them speak. Jerry Jones bought the Dallas Cowboys, Andy Reid owns them!!
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René
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 10:59:57
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Hey guys, do you really, really must pick one over the other? You probably could get both and be happier Just make sure you get Rapture first. We're cooler than them, anyone can tell you so. We will even invite you a coffee or beer in next trade show if you join us. Kidding (yet the invitation is for real). "Abby" is kinda cool to me anyways. It reminds me ER -René
post edited by René - 2007/04/04 11:01:54
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rjt
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 11:22:18
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Well, I'm halfway there..... I have Abby. Plus, I have Z3TA+..... now if I can just convince myself I need another synth!! Hey, what am I saying?? that isn't hard at all!
Take care
Talk is cheap; supply outweighs the demand. Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people look bright before you hear them speak. Jerry Jones bought the Dallas Cowboys, Andy Reid owns them!!
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cityrat
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 12:47:43
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Just make sure you get Rapture first. We're cooler than them, anyone can tell you so. We will even invite you a coffee or beer in next trade show if you join us. Kidding (yet the invitation is for real). See - now thats what I call good marketing and customer support!
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wrench45us
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 13:27:10
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biomechanoid/biolab/colin's banks of absynth patches make a lot of use of CC1
esp for filter control
as far as my experience, it's a fact that transport buttons reset CC1 in P5
fortunately, automation of CC1 is very easy to do in a host like P5 and has many benefits of control
besides just 'fixing' this issue
(and honestly I wouldn't have discovered all that unless so forced)
imo, there isn't much overlap between these 2 synths,
but why anyone would give any weight to my opinion in this matter is also beyond me, when various demos are available
now if you want a real argument there's always sytrus vs. rhino
but this is a Cakewalk forum
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Nick P
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RE: Rapture vs Absynth
2007/04/04 20:26:15
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ORIGINAL: rjt
Absynth was around a lot longer than Rapture. I guess that makes Rapture the "me too" product.
ROFL
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