missing something simple . . .

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tonybranham
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2007/05/03 19:04:44 (permalink)

missing something simple . . .

When I record a new audio track, the previous tracks that are playing back are coming thru on the new track. What am I missing?
Setup:
mic in mixer channel 1; sent to alt 3/4 fader to alt 3/4 outs to audiophile in
HStudio: recording track input left audiophile; recording track output master bus; master bus output - audiophile outs
Audiophile outs to mixer channel 7/8; sent to alt 3/4 fader to control room outs to monitor/phones

Thanks
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13 Replies Related Threads

    Beagle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/03 21:14:27 (permalink)
    what soundcard do you have? are you saying you have an audiophile? what model?

    somewhere in the software mixer there should be a setting somewhere that says something like "WHAT YOU HEAR" or something similar. you want to disable that.

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    #2
    tonybranham
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/03 22:05:21 (permalink)
    I have an audiophile 192 using ASIO driver.
    I opened the m-audio delta control panel. I don't see a what your hear setting or anything resembling that.
    #3
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/03 23:16:19 (permalink)
    tony..

    What mixer are you using........................Looks like a Behringer or Mackie.

    This is a problem...........

    Setup:
    mic in mixer channel 1; sent to alt 3/4 fader to alt 3/4 outs to audiophile in
    HStudio: recording track input left audiophile; recording track output master bus; master bus output - audiophile outs
    Audiophile outs to mixer channel 7/8; sent to alt 3/4 fader to control room outs to monitor/phones


    With a multi bus mixer there are a lot of useable monitoring configurations...your configuration is not one of them.

    You are basically sharing your input and output signals on the same bus.
    Basicallly re recording your mix back thru alt 3-4 every time you record. Hit your input monitoring button and you'll have a heck of a feedback loop.


    If you give me mixer Brand and model I can walk you thru a good set up.

    Two things to try in the mean time.......

    This is how I have audiophile setup..........................
    Mixer channel #1/main out/audiophile input 1-2
    Audiophile out 1-2/Mixer in 7-8/ 3-4-control room out.
    M-Audio control panel set to monitor wav out........................not monitor mixer.

    Now selecting............alt out 3-4 and main @ your monitoring section, you can independently monitor what your recording with zero latency, while playing back your recorded tracks. No bleed.

    While there are several more ways I could route my signals and I'm sure I'll get some why replies........

    I prefer this one as I can..........................

    A........ EQ my monitors via the channel 7-8....basically I add a touch of base to 7-8 to compensate for my room.

    B.........My board has both 1/4 and XLR main outs...I run the 1/4 to the audiophile and have a set of powered 12" PA speakers on my main out XLR's for random jamming. I can turn off studio monitors and PC fire up the 12"ers plug into my board and go.


    In another set up you can go............

    Mixer channel#1/alt3-4 out/audiophile 1-2 in
    audiophile 1-2out/mixer tape in/tape in-control room out.
    M-Audio control panel.....wav out...............not monitor mixer.


    This is a popular configuration but is much less flexible.
    If your board does not have an input potentiometer for tape in, you must use M-Audio control panel to control independent tape in volumes. This can be risky for your studio monitors and to me annoying. I like having fader control of my monitor mix levels.

    I haven't even mentioned the input monitoring and M-Audio control panel possibilities.

    Sorry to ramble .

    Post your mixer info.

    post edited by zungle - 2007/05/03 23:20:10
    #4
    tonybranham
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 06:58:01 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info. I have a Behringer XENYX 1204FX.

    I have all the cables routed as described on the "Tweakheadz" website which seems to be very good. I think the problem is which buttons I'm selecting on the mixer. I'll experiment with your suggestions.

    By the way, my main outs are only xlrs and I'd rather not buy more cables unless I really need to.
    #5
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 10:12:41 (permalink)
    I have all the cables routed as described on the "Tweakheadz" website which seems to be very good. I think the problem is which buttons I'm selecting on the mixer.


    Try what I suggested......

    tweakheadz or not your signal path is wrong.
    #6
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 10:31:24 (permalink)
    I own and use the XENYX2222fx...........

    The montoring sections are identical.

    I just ran your exact set up it will difinetely NOTwork.

    On that board one of the 2 set ups I gave you will work.

    Sorry if you need more cables to use XLR's.

    If you use "tape in" to monitor you won't need more cables.

    There is always the option of monitoring off the Audiophile.......which many people do.

    In that case you'll need to go to "help' and read up on input monitoring and latency.

    Or.................read the Audiophile 192 manual and become familiar with the M-Audio control panel and its routing capabilities.

    Like I said..there are many options for monitoring with a mixer and your card.

    Good luck.
    #7
    TomXP411
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 12:58:46 (permalink)
    You do not need XLR cables. You have control room outs, you have RCA outs, and you have a headphone jack.

    Also, do NOT use alt 3-4 for monitoring your mix. You're crossing your signal path, and this is why your first track is bouncing on to your second.

    Try this setup; it's what I'd do if my board had a submix output:
    1. Patch your mics, guitars, or whatever in through channels 1-8. Start with the alt 3/4 turned OFF for everything.
    2. Connect the alt 3-4 output from your mixer to the input on the sound card.
    3. Patch the sound card's output to the RCA input on the mixer. It probably says "Tape in". Make sure the the "CD/TAPE TO MAIN" button is pushed in.
    4. Connect the Control Room Out OR the Tape Out to your speakers. The Control Room Out will let you use the Solo button to listen to individual channels, and you can also preview the ALT 3-4 and the computer's output.
    5. Enable ASIO monitoring in the Audiophile's control panel

    When you record, just hit the ALT 3-4 button for the channel you want to record. That should be the ONLY one with ALT 3-4 selected. Record a test track. Now go back and play it to make sure it worked. When you're done recording, turn off ALT 3-4 for that channel.

    Also, if you don't have the right cables, and you can't use the tape in to monitor the card, then plug the card in to one of the aux returns (probably aux1.) Make sure to turn on aux1 only for the main bus (It looks like there's a knob there to send it to aux-1 as well. Leave that off.)
    post edited by TomXP411 - 2007/05/04 13:03:40
    #8
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 16:26:15 (permalink)

    You do not need XLR cables.


    Isn't that what i just said??

    If you use "tape in" to monitor you won't need more cables.


    4. Connect the Control Room Out OR the Tape Out to your speakers. The Control Room Out will let you use the Solo button to listen to individual channels, and you can also preview the ALT 3-4 and the computer's output.


    5. Enable ASIO monitoring in the Audiophile's control panel


    No need to solo or input monitor anything..........select alt 3-4and tape in @ source section. Done.

    The whole point of using harware mixer is to avoid input software monitoring and eliminate latency issues.

    Like I said before if you choose to use tape in for monitoring and wish to maintain independent volume control of 3-4 and tape in, you will have to adjust mix levels @ M-audio control panel or within SHS(which could affect export levels depending on your settings). Any gain adjustments made @3-4 for monitoring purposes will result in change in recording levels.

    The 192 is a balanced in/out interface. I would buy the cables and maintain a balanced signal path.

    The OP bought the mixer....SHS6 and 192 interface........ buy a pair of cables.

    Again.......

    Mixer channel #1 or whatever / bus to main out /main out XLR balanced / 192 1/4 balanced in 1-2 / SHS6......no input monitoring.

    SHS6 / 192 1-2 out / mixer stereo 7-8 in /bus to 3-4

    @ source select 3-4 to monitor what you've recorded and select main to monitor what you are recording...........Why?????

    1. Leave sends open for FX and headphone cues.......or extra outs.
    2. Leave returns open for MIDI intruments or line level sources.
    3. Zero latency monitoring


    4. Independent fader controlled Volume control of SHS6 at mixer(7-8)

    What I am saying here is this........when tracking say a guitar..........you may want to hear the guitar a little louder against what you've already recorded right?
    If you are using 3-4 to record out of and you arbitrarely reach down and move volume of guitar up @ either alt3-4 or channel#1 it will change your recording levels......you'll have to use either M-Audio conrol panel or SHS to bring down mix.

    If you have SHS6 routed back to mixer 7-8 you can adjust the mix volume at 7-8 fader without affecting the guitar you are trying to record. Remember if you reach down a use the control room/ source knob it will bring everything up or down.......no independent control..........

    If you don't mind toggling back and forth between M-Audio control panel or SHS its not an issue...........I prefer to have it on the mixer............somethings to hot, bam turn it off.......I have 2 friends both Audiophile owners popped their tweeters getting a suprise volume @ the M-Audio Control panel...I know, I know their bad. But still a risk. Some home Engineers turn down their monitors @ the monitor or amp but their then losing the best gain structure for clean headroom.

    5. Ability to EQ monitors.
    6. Ability to to pan mix or isolate left and right areas of mix.........yep its useful.
    6. Almost same as 2.......Use tape in as extra input to monitor MIDI devices or other sound sources without commiting to recording.....or using up channel input.......example play back a MIDI drum track using drum machine..monitor drum machine @ tape in....without having to record until later......use drum machine volume control to adjust levels at tape in........same could be done with a keyboard.
    7. Tape out is unbalanced......use for alternate mix

    OR

    Use XENYX as a dedicated pre and monitor off card................it is set up for that.

    Thats a whole seperate deal.

    Lots of ways to do it.......this only my preference.

    Thanks for the room to ramble.
    #9
    tonybranham
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 19:41:13 (permalink)
    Wow, that's a lot of good info. I'll try different setups. I experimented some this morning before I saw the rest of the posts and got a workable situation. My orignal config was:

    mic in mixer channel 1; sent to alt 3/4 bus to alt 3/4 outs to audiophile in
    HStudio: recording track input left audiophile; recording track output master bus; master bus output - audiophile outs
    Audiophile outs to mixer channel 7/8; sent to alt 3/4 fader to control room outs to monitor/phones

    I figured out I was sending channel 7/8 back to the audiophile thru the 3/4 alt bus. If I didn't I couldn't hear the playback because I did not select alt3/4 and main mix in the monitoring session.

    Zungle, I'm not clear on the advantages (except for balanced xlr outs to balanced ins) of your suggestion below versus the path I'm using. Is there more?
    Mixer channel #1 or whatever / bus to main out /main out XLR balanced / 192 1/4 balanced in 1-2 / SHS6......no input monitoring.
    SHS6 / 192 1-2 out / mixer stereo 7-8 in /bus to 3-4
    @ source select 3-4 to monitor what you've recorded and select main to monitor what you are recording


    #10
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 20:23:06 (permalink)
    Tony..

    Sorry for info overload.

    Try the set up I laid out........

    Read my little rant on............ Why?

    Real basically

    With your mixer........you'll be able to monitor and record with ZERO Bleed.

    And you'll be dinking with your interface and DAW software less.

    #11
    tonybranham
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/04 22:08:44 (permalink)
    No problem. I like lots of info.
    I think I understand most of it. You recommend using the main for monitoring what I'm recording and the alt3/4 bus for what's already recorded. I'm doing the opposite of this. Does it make any difference?
    #12
    zungle
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/05 00:26:13 (permalink)
    You recommend using the main for monitoring what I'm recording and the alt3/4 bus for what's already recorded. I'm doing the opposite of this. Does it make any difference?


    Other than a balanced connection.............. No, It doesn't matter. Most people likely do it that way.......3-4 out and main monitor. that wil work perfectly.

    I actually.......being kind of a metal tone tweaker ............ recorded from and tested every output my board has...........

    I recorded w/EQ
    Without/EQ
    Hot
    Low
    Stereo
    Mono
    Subs
    Sends
    mains
    inserts
    tape out
    everything......................

    What I found was my main outs were a little cleaner, warmer than the other out puts.

    The sub outs were close, but the tape outs and sends were noticeably less quality.

    So I chose to record using main outs for best possible signal.

    I also have 2 sets of main outs so I have them routed to accomodate live playing and recording........without having to use my studio monitors..


    Sounds like your gettin there.....................you'll find ways to expand on your routing within in your set up..........there are a ton of other options.

    For what its worth I have owned and sold quite a lot of gear over the years........

    I have found the XENYX mixers excellent at their price point.......it was a good choice for a small board.

    Good luck
    post edited by zungle - 2007/05/05 00:31:03
    #13
    tonybranham
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    RE: missing something simple . . . 2007/05/05 07:27:55 (permalink)
    Thanks. I really appreciate all the help.
    #14
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