Myspace Mp3 format

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Joe Bravo
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2007/07/04 22:55:46 (permalink)
I did find that variable bitrate mp3 files were a little smaller when of about the same quality of their constant bitrate counterparts, but only on large bitrates such as 224 or larger. At the most common bitrate (Internet standard) 128k, it doesn't. WMA was the same way.

I'll certainly agree that wma files sound better at smaller file sizes. There's no contest between a 128k mp3 and a 128k wma where stereo imaging is concerned. I had hoped that the Internet would adapt wma as a new standard at some point, but unfortunately, MS apparently wanted rather high licencing fees for servers to stream with it, or for third party software like Flash to use it at one time, so everyone stuck with mp3. Besides, people with Mac's can't use wma or wmv files under normal use. (That is, there are ways around it but your average Internet user doesn't know how to do it). I used to use wma files on my website, but now I've gone back to mp3 so no one is left in the cold.

PS, I never import mp3 files into Flash. I find it's best to import wave files and allow Flash to do the mp3 conversion via Lame. It'll always sound better that way. Lame is great at really small file sizes like 24 or 32k.
post edited by Joe Bravo - 2007/07/04 23:03:15
#31
frik
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2008/06/08 10:32:28 (permalink)
well, myspace turns everything on their streaming player into 96kbps. proof? get one of those streaming-rippers, and you'll find all the mp3s you "rip" from the myspace player is 96kbps. im researching into a mp3 encoding / setting hack that myspace *may* not touch. a bit like that hack people found a while back with YouTube, where if you upload a video with *just* the right audio/video setting, youtube doesnt re-encode it into a crappier version. some people even got 128kbps, stereo sound on their youtube videos.
#32
foxwolfen
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2008/06/08 16:52:52 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo

Well the thing is that the compression quality level varies on a variable bitrate file. For instance it'll be from 100 - 125, or 105 - 140, 110 - 150 and so on. But even if you settle on the 100 - 125 bitrate average it'll still produce a file that's as much as 25% bigger than a constant 128k bitrate file and will sound about the same (at least in my opinion, although Fraunhofer considers the 100 - 125 range variable bitrate to be of low quality).


There is bit rate (one factor) then there is quality (another factor). They are not the same thing, though they are related. VBR is a quality setting that is based more on compression algorithm used (there a many compression algorithms). With some encoders there is not even an option for bit rate adjustment with VBR.

VBR will, by design, be smaller than a CBR file at higher quality settings as it strips out unneeded data when its not required. This is the same with all MPEG standard formats, be it MPEG1, 2, 3 or 4. At lower encoding qualities or bitrates, the difference can be negative because the control data included does add overhead under these conditions. A high quality compression algorithm will take more cpu power to decode than a file encoded with a CBR, but a wave which is 10 times the bit rate takes almost none. The complexities of lossy encoding are not as trivial as they might first seem.

You are correct that 128kbps is a poor setting for either type, be it CBR or VBR. 128 is the minimum acceptable standard for stereo reproduction, but its better for non-music applications that are less concerned about fidelity and dynamic range. FLAC, a lossless algorithm is nearly a perfect representation of the original wave, but at about half the size.

It is my understanding that MySpace and Soundclick free use 128. It will never sound good compared to the original wave or even a hq mp3.

edit -stupid typos
post edited by foxwolfen - 2008/06/08 17:17:00

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#33
krizrox
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2008/06/09 08:48:20 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: frik

well, myspace turns everything on their streaming player into 96kbps. proof? get one of those streaming-rippers, and you'll find all the mp3s you "rip" from the myspace player is 96kbps. im researching into a mp3 encoding / setting hack that myspace *may* not touch. a bit like that hack people found a while back with YouTube, where if you upload a video with *just* the right audio/video setting, youtube doesnt re-encode it into a crappier version. some people even got 128kbps, stereo sound on their youtube videos.



Funny this came up when it did. I was just talking to a client about this same issue not too long ago. I was convinced that MySpace was doing something to the MP3's because they didn't sound as good as the MP3's I created here and handed off to the client.

Larry Kriz
www.LnLRecording.com
www.myspace.com/lnlrecording

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#34
Spaceduck
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2008/06/11 08:01:14 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: frik

well, myspace turns everything on their streaming player into 96kbps.


Well, that would explain a lot of things. I just set up my first myspace page (after wisely avoiding it for years), and yeah I'm getting the same crappy quality everyone else is talking about. I spent all morning re-uploaing the tune at different bitrates (320,256,128) and there was no difference. I never would've thought they'd go as low as 96k...

And another rant, as long as we're slamming myspace. AFAIK they don't let you update an mp3 (the way soundclick lets you). This means you have to delete the old one and re-create a new one which is a royal pain in the pooper, not to mention the fact that you lose the history of all the views & downloads you've received so far.

I dunno... maybe I haven't taken the time to learn their system, but their help page is a joke. I had to go to yahoo answers to learn most of this stuff. Btw the max file size is 10Mb.

Stupid myspace. Who is this "Tom" character anyway, and why does he think he's my friend?
#35
ShiftingKevin
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/13 10:59:52 (permalink)
And on the 397th day.... the thread rose from the dead.

Has anyone found a good way to clean up mixdowns for myspace yet? Though they're slaughtered by the upload algorhythm, there are many, many bands that have a passable sound on their myspace players. The only lead that I got on mastering low bitrate songs is to clear up bit space by low-passing the overall mix around 16k and below. The highs above 16k aren't usually requisite to a "passable" sound for the song to be streamed. I tried that method, and while it noticeably improved the quality on myspace, it was not yet equal to the songs on bigger bands' pages.

Anyone have any other tricks?
#36
Bob Oister
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/14 02:15:03 (permalink)
Anyone have any other tricks?


Hi, Kevin,

I embedded my SoundClick Player onto my MySpace page and removed the MySpace Player. At least that way you can get 128kbps instead of 96. It’s simple to do and definitely sounds better.

Hope this helps!
Bob
#37
ShiftingKevin
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/14 15:21:53 (permalink)
I may just do that, Bob. I would like to find out how to get that good sound at lower but rates, though! I think my mixes overall would benefit from knowing how to improve the low-quality mixdowns.
#38
SongCraft
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/14 18:16:17 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Bob Oister

Anyone have any other tricks?


Hi, Kevin,

I embedded my SoundClick Player onto my MySpace page and removed the MySpace Player. At least that way you can get 128kbps instead of 96. It’s simple to do and definitely sounds better.

Hope this helps!
Bob


Hi Bob

That's what's I've done! I refuse to use MySpace player. In the near future I plan on getting SwishMax2 or a cheaper, easier program such as is this little gem to create my own player and embed that on MySpace page. From there my higher quality MP3 files will be streamed from my own site.

 
 
#39
bapu
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/14 18:52:46 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Ognis

Try mine out. They sound as crappy as anyone elses...

http://myspace.com/ognisonlyremix


Got me to listen.

Thy don't sound crapppy to me. But I'm deaf so it all sounds the same to me.
#40
bitflipper
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RE: Myspace Mp3 format 2009/07/14 22:47:30 (permalink)
And another rant, as long as we're slamming myspace. AFAIK they don't let you update an mp3 (the way soundclick lets you). This means you have to delete the old one and re-create a new one which is a royal pain in the pooper, not to mention the fact that you lose the history of all the views & downloads you've received so far.


Curious that this thread would be revived, with Spaceduck's above final post at the end of it: curious because as of yesterday Soundclick no longer allows you to update files, either. Next they'll reduce the MP3 quality even lower and then they'll be technically right up there on a par with MySpace.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#41
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