Lyric--Copy and Paste Problem!

There seems to be a serious bug in Sonar 7, involving copying and pasting sections of music with lyrics.

I have been struggling with a particular song for several hours now, in that the lyrics come out wrong after pasting a section of music with them into another place. Sometimes the notes come out wrong too.

I know that's vague, but after hours of trying to fix the song, with no success, I have not been able to figure out the problem clearly enough to be more specific about it. Also, I don't have time now, to spend a lot of time trying to describe the details of what has happened. Only, that I suspect there is a serious bug there.

Anyone else had such problems? Any suggestions in general for copy and paste problems?

Is this a known bug? Will an update soon fix the problem?

Thank you for your response.

I should add something, that perhaps might help clarify the problem. Probably a lot of people who use the lyrics view, will only have one track with lyrics.

I, however, make Sonar files with scrolling lyrics for two-part choral pieces for my elementary school choirs. I have both lyrics windows open, side by side, and the sound from that part comes from the same side. I have my laptop connected to a projector showing this on a screen in our rehearsals, with the sound going to two well-separated speakers, the two voices panned hard right and left. This really helps children in learning part-singing, to hear the parts well-separated, and to see the visuals of the lyrics scrolling in both parts on the screen.

I have done this for years, from early versions of Cakewalk, without problem.

But I think the problems mentioned in this thread have something to do with my multiple lyric tracks. For instance, it seems like one lyric track bleeds into the other, so a syllable from one word in one track, ends up also in the middle of another word in another track. (Resulting in some very strange lyrical results in lyrics view!)

Some notes are bleeding from one track to another too, and it seems related to the lyrics.

What is causing this track bleeding? They are completely separate tracks, with no linked clips, output to different synths. Why do notes and lyrics from one track appear in the other?

This has happened to me now in more than one song, so it is not just a problem with one file. And again, I have been using Lyrics View for years, in the same manner, without problem.

What is happening with Lyrics View in Sonar now? Is it bug-riddled? Will it be fixed soon?

Thank you for your input.

The Highest Calling

ORIGINAL: maikii

I, however, make Sonar files with scrolling lyrics for two-part choral pieces for my elementary school choirs.

Though I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with this, and don't know enough about this feature to help, I just wanted to say that in my opinion, what you're doing is very, very cool.

I'll never in all my days ever forget my first music teacher, whose patient but meticulous instruction lit a fire in my heart that burns to this day.

Though nearly four decades have passed since his untimely death (at age 83), to me he will forever be immortal.

I'm sure your students will feel the same.

Thank you for answering music's highest calling.

I can't help you with your problem because I don't use Lyrics View. But I would recommend that you immediately put in a BUG REPORT, followed by a call to Technical Support.

I think the fact that you use this Sonar feature to teach Music to Elementary School children adds quite a bit of urgency this problem.

Hope you get it solved fast.

The Playlist Function Has been Broken since Sonar 1 and Still Broken at Sonar 7, I've complained so Many times and nothing gets done, if that's any consolation.

I was thinking--perhaps you guys would like to see an example of this problem. I'll post the file I was just working on, that I wrote about in the last post.

I don't see a way to attach a file to a forum post. So I uploaded it to some web space, and will list the URL here:

http://home.znet.com/myweb/MiGallo.cwp

I'll explain a little about this very simple piece. All the tracks output to TTS currently.

It is a round in Spanish. The lyrics should read as follows:

Mi gallo se murió ayer
Mi gallo se murió ayer

Ya no cantará cocorí cocorá
Ya no cantará cocorí cocorá

Cocorí cora cocorí cora
Cocorí cora cocorí cora

It is actually a six part round, and I originally input it with six vocal parts, plus three accompaniment voices (one contrabass, two vibraphone). However, I simplified it to only two vocal parts, the first and the third. Therefore, I archived tracks 2, 4, 5, and 6. You can ignore them completely. Therefore, the only tracks in question, with the garbled lyrics, are tracks 1 and 3.

On opening the file you should see two lyrics views open, for tracks 1 and 3. Track 1 on the left (with the sound panned hard left), and track 3 on the right (sound panned hard right.) Yet, the lyrics are all garbled up.

As is common with rounds, first both groups sing the round in unison. The lyrics should be identical on both sides, moving in unison. After one time through, the round starts. Track 1 (left) starts it first, singing through the song two times, slowing down at the very end.

Track 3 (right), after singing the song in unison with track1 (left) at the beginning, then waits 4 measures while Track 1 started the song again, and then comes in 4 measures later with the same song. The second time through they end at the same time as Track 1, which means they don't go to the end of the song the second time.

Therefore, the lyrics should be identical on the two sides. One time through in unison, and after that there are still the same lyrics, except that they do not move in unison, and the final lyrics on Track 3 are left out, as they stop before their second repeat is finished.

As you see though (unless they appear differently on your system), both sides are completely garbled, and different from each other.

If the lyric views do not open when you open the file (they should), highlight track 1 and click Lyrics View in the view menu. You can then click the lock on that view, to enable highlighting track 3 and opening a lyric view of that as well.

Now highlight track 1 and 3 in Track View, and open a staff view with both those tracks. Now you'll see the lyrics appear correctly, in both tracks. If you look at event list, they also appear correctly.

What on earth is going on????

One other thing I just noticed now, on uploading the file. Extremely large file size for the type of file--which is only MIDI, no audio, no bounced tracks, etc. 695KB! What could have bloated the size of the file. Why do the lyrics appear screwed in lyrics view?

I would appreciate some help with this. Thank you.

I'll describe a couple other things I tried, since the last post.

I deleted all the lyrics from the lyrics view of Track 1. Then I re-entered the lyrics, there in lyrics view. Now, when I changed to staff view, not only were the lyrics all screwed up there, but so were the notes!!! (I think this is something similar to what I described months ago.) Very strange! I reverted out of it.

After reverting to the previously saved file, the same one I posted here, where the lyrics and notes appear correctly in staff view, but the lyrics are all screwed up in Lyrics View, I saved it as a Type 1 MIDI file. Guess what? First of all, immense file size drop--from 695kb .CWP, to 18kb .MID. About a fortieth of the .cwp file size, for a file that is only midi, no audio, no effects, etc.

I closed the .cwp file in Sonar, and opened the saved .mid file. Of course, the .MID file does not include the layout, so the lyrics views do not open on file-open. But when I opened them, the lyrics were correct, as was still the case in staff view.

So, I guess, I'll drop the .cwp and work with this .mid. It adds hassle--I'll have to reinsert the TTS softsynth, output the tracks to it, re-do my settings for TTS, etc. But less hassle than trying to deal with the screwed lyrics in the .cwp file. And--I hope that when I save the .MID file as .cwp, that that does not screw it up again!

Anyone else have any ideas on this? Did anyone look at the uploaded file? Yes, I will contact CW tech support, but I'm sure they will not be in until Tuesday, and will probably be backlogged with requests then, and I need to finish this piece right away. So, any insight anyone could give me into this problem, would definitely be appreciated.

Thank you.

I've had similar probelms with Sonar for a long time (way b4 7.0). A work around I've figured out is that whenever I want to copy & paste or cut & paste a section I split the clip where needed & then bounce the 2 clips to individual clips. Sonar can then move notes with its lyrics correctly without adding wierd gibberish to the lyrics. The trick is to keep bouncing clips as you work. Shouldn't have to & it's a nuissance, but it tends to work.

'Hope that helps.

ORIGINAL: mcgoo

I've had similar probelms with Sonar for a long time (way b4 7.0).

Perhaps also with v.6, I forget. I certainly don't think this problem occurred with Sonar 4, and definitely not with CWPA. I've been using Cakewalk from earliest DOS versions, from first Windows version through v.9, and now Sonar the last couple years, frequent use of lyrics view, and have only had this problem very recently, way less than a year.

By accident, I came across another post about this problem, in the thread:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=962847

Most of that thread is about staff view, not lyrics view. But scroll down to the last post, by Susan G., dated 3/2/2007, 12:08:57 AM, and she pasted in a pic from her lyrics view, that shows something similar to the problem discussed in this thread.

So, the question is, with people having written about this problem for over a year, is CW aware of the problem? Are they working on a fix for it?

I have the same problem. It is very frustrating. I tried this with X1c. I tried Sonar 8.52. Same problem. I am surprised Cake walk has not fixed this problem for the last 10 years!!