mick@itc
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Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
Thought I would share this with my Sonar peers given we strive for the last bit of perfection.
Recently I recorded an Elvis impersonator who sang an eclectic mix of things like "over the rainbow", modern songe and Elvis classics. Tried a few mics upo front as he had the old boomy “tankuvarymuch†voice and settled on a Lawson L47, which picks up the tonal range really well (like an old RCA ribbon). Ran Sonar at 96/24 as I do and recorded about 12 tracks. Did the mix down and he went away a happy camper, so I thought.
Ended up calling me back saying that he thought it didn’t sound like him and it needed more reverb (this after him telling me that the last studio put way too much reverb on)!!! I invited him back (‘cause the customer is always right) and suggested he bring a recording of himself that he mentioned he liked. Turns out that he had done a recording in a Karaoke bar in Thailand that burned a copy of a CD which he believed is what he sounded like. The sound of the CD is …well… the sound of a singer with a dynamic mic and a “thin†midi backing with lots of people noises in the background.
So we spent ½ hour taking one of his tracks and me “fiddling†the eq until it sounded “like him†(i.e. like the Karaoke bar CD). I eventually set up a SONY EQ plug-in with the “telephone line†preset and we adjusted until it squeezed the life out of the sound.
He has gone away satisfied. But I feel annoyed, empty. What a waste of my and his time. Ya…got paid for it but that’s not the point in this case for me. I just didn’t get the customers real requirements up front and I would probably not have done the job if I knew.
Thanks for letting me vent…
Mick
Mick from Oz. HP DV7-3008tx , Sonar 8.5 PE, Komplete 6, GPO, JABB, Ozone 4, Melodyne Studio & DNA
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SvenArne
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 6:58 PM
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Pearls for swine, eh? Recently did a young rock/metal band, and they said my mix was good sounding but too loud! Sven
post edited by SvenArne - January 10, 08 7:15 PM
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 7:00 PM
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rock/metal bands these days.....
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mgh
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 7:01 PM
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Pearls, for swine, eh? Recently did a young rock/metal band, and they said my mix was good sounding but too loud! they wanted Darkthrone necro, Sven! 
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 7:01 PM
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btw were you refering to "him" the singer? Or "Him" the king?
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emwhy
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 7:06 PM
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Next time that happens do what a lot of industry pros do. If you have to have your name on the credits, just add that it was done for ITTIS Productions. It's an acronym for "I think this is sh**t". No harm no foul.
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karl_tone
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 10, 08 9:04 PM
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not to be too cynical but I think I would have canceled the session the minute he showed up with block sideburns...
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pgw
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 3:09 AM
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ORIGINAL: SvenArne
Recently did a young rock/metal band, and they said my mix was good sounding but too loud!
Sven
I thought being loud was the point of playing "very metal"-music, maybe they´re going for metal-muzak  oh, well..... Per
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GaryMedia
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 10:33 AM
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My condolences...I hope your next clients will appreciate the excellence for which you strive.
CbB Win10 | Mac Pro 12-core 3.33GHz/48GB | TCL 55" 4K UHD | 480GB SSD | 6TB HDD RAID-5 array| 1.5TB SSD RAID-0 array | Midas M32 | 2x Audient ASP800 | UAD-2 Duo PCIe | Adam A7X. http://www.tedlandstudio.com/articles
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MarkSeibert
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 11:25 AM
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Over the years I’ve come to realize that everyone has their own idea of what is good. I’m sure being the professional it sounds like you are, that when an Elvis impersonator showed up to record you probably already realized that his idea of what is good will be different from yours. Some jobs we do for fun and don’t care about the money, and then there’s the jobs we do for money – Sometimes these intersect and then it’s magic! The one thing I have found to be true for me is that if I can find the fun in the job, then I enjoy what I’m doing. Sometimes the fun is that I’m making something that I am going to be proud of. Other times I find that fun is simply helping someone else make something that they are proud of…even though I might be cringing inside, it’s very satisfying to deliver a product that puts a smile on the clients face 
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rdolmat
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 2:29 PM
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ORIGINAL: mick@itc
Thought I would share this with my Sonar peers given we strive for the last bit of perfection.
Recently I recorded an Elvis impersonator who sang an eclectic mix of things like "over the rainbow", modern songe and Elvis classics. Tried a few mics upo front as he had the old boomy “tankuvarymuch†voice and settled on a Lawson L47, which picks up the tonal range really well (like an old RCA ribbon). Ran Sonar at 96/24 as I do and recorded about 12 tracks. Did the mix down and he went away a happy camper, so I thought.
Ended up calling me back saying that he thought it didn’t sound like him and it needed more reverb (this after him telling me that the last studio put way too much reverb on)!!! I invited him back (‘cause the customer is always right) and suggested he bring a recording of himself that he mentioned he liked. Turns out that he had done a recording in a Karaoke bar in Thailand that burned a copy of a CD which he believed is what he sounded like. The sound of the CD is …well… the sound of a singer with a dynamic mic and a “thin†midi backing with lots of people noises in the background.
So we spent ½ hour taking one of his tracks and me “fiddling†the eq until it sounded “like him†(i.e. like the Karaoke bar CD). I eventually set up a SONY EQ plug-in with the “telephone line†preset and we adjusted until it squeezed the life out of the sound.
He has gone away satisfied. But I feel annoyed, empty. What a waste of my and his time. Ya…got paid for it but that’s not the point in this case for me. I just didn’t get the customers real requirements up front and I would probably not have done the job if I knew.
Thanks for letting me vent…
Mick
Just finished one of those myself...the client ended up loving the version that the vocals were completely buried behind the music and had about 98% wet reverb mix.. (the verb was actually louder than the dry vocals). And of course, to 'enhance his deep voice' he asked me to put about 12 dB boost on 200Hz...nice!
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Saintom
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 2:38 PM
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ORIGINAL: rdolmat
ORIGINAL: mick@itc
Thought I would share this with my Sonar peers given we strive for the last bit of perfection.
Recently I recorded an Elvis impersonator who sang an eclectic mix of things like "over the rainbow", modern songe and Elvis classics. Tried a few mics upo front as he had the old boomy “tankuvarymuch†voice and settled on a Lawson L47, which picks up the tonal range really well (like an old RCA ribbon). Ran Sonar at 96/24 as I do and recorded about 12 tracks. Did the mix down and he went away a happy camper, so I thought.
Ended up calling me back saying that he thought it didn’t sound like him and it needed more reverb (this after him telling me that the last studio put way too much reverb on)!!! I invited him back (‘cause the customer is always right) and suggested he bring a recording of himself that he mentioned he liked. Turns out that he had done a recording in a Karaoke bar in Thailand that burned a copy of a CD which he believed is what he sounded like. The sound of the CD is …well… the sound of a singer with a dynamic mic and a “thin†midi backing with lots of people noises in the background.
So we spent ½ hour taking one of his tracks and me “fiddling†the eq until it sounded “like him†(i.e. like the Karaoke bar CD). I eventually set up a SONY EQ plug-in with the “telephone line†preset and we adjusted until it squeezed the life out of the sound.
He has gone away satisfied. But I feel annoyed, empty. What a waste of my and his time. Ya…got paid for it but that’s not the point in this case for me. I just didn’t get the customers real requirements up front and I would probably not have done the job if I knew.
Thanks for letting me vent…
Mick
Just finished one of those myself...the client ended up loving the version that the vocals were completely buried behind the music and had about 98% wet reverb mix.. (the verb was actually louder than the dry vocals). And of course, to 'enhance his deep voice' he asked me to put about 12 dB boost on 200Hz...nice!
I think I have worked with that "guy".  The best part is that after a while when they have listened to it a bunch of times and compared it to other mixes and their friends start to tell them it sounds funny. That guy won't say "yeah I know I told the engineer to do that, he had a better mix but I thought it would sound better with all of that reverb, and I had him increase the low end in my voice too". Instead they might say "yeah that guy had no idea of what he was doing"  Tom
Sometimes we see the light, Sometimes we stare at the light, and wonder why it is so bright...
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AndyW
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 2:49 PM
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yorolpal
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 4:54 PM
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Well, as the owner operator of a commercial studio I must say that unless tasked and paid specifically for doing so we are not "producers". We strive to give every client the absolute best audio possible BUT (and like PeeWee said once, "that's an awfully big but") if they instruct us to squash, eq, reverb, your-audiological-adjective-here the livin beejeesus out of their project we say "cccoiitenly"! And proceed to debase their project until they are happy as little clams. If, however, we ARE tasked to "produce" and not simply record, mix and master, we always argue till we're blue (sometimes purple) in the face for using best practise whenever possible and/or appropriate (sometimes dirty, tinny, whatever actually works better for some projects). But, overarchingly, there is no accounting for tastes, the customer is always right. . .even when they are wrong. . .and it takes all kinds to make a mess.
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papa2004
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 5:21 PM
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Yes to what Yorolpal (and Gretchen with the tray full of Cuban Breezes) says:
If the client is paying you, give him what he wants. If the end result is something that really sucks (in your opinion) you have the right to insist that the client not use your name or any likeness thereof in association with any commercial release.
If you've tactfully offered suggestions to improve the sound (which can be a very dicey situation) and the client refuses to listen, just keep the studio "stopwatch" running and make sure that all the time used is properly billed.
It's a hard call to make, but you, as the studio owner and engineer, have to decide if you want to put up with the idiot with the checkbook or not.
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Saintom
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 5:29 PM
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Yes agreed it is a fine line to tread. I have had to let a few projects go somewhere else because of artistic differences. I have been hired to produce projects but about the third or fourth time they shutdown my producer ideas, I have to tell them I will happily continue Engineering the project, But I don't feel that I am the right Producer for them. Sometimes it works other times they just get mad.  It's a hard to combine Art and Science. Tom
Sometimes we see the light, Sometimes we stare at the light, and wonder why it is so bright...
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John
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RE: Too good...make it sound tinny!!!
January 11, 08 6:22 PM
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This just goes to prove that you can't loose by underestimating the poor taste of the consuming public!
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