A few questions

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Urdypooh
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2008/01/24 00:33:52 (permalink)

A few questions

Good evening,

this time I have a couple of questions at once.
a) Are there any MIDI effects out there that I could "plug" into the FX bin of a MIDI track in MC4? Is there such a thing as an effect that I could use on a MIDI track ? (Yes, I know MIDI is just data and not sound but using a soft synth and MC4 should help me out here, shouldn't it?)
b) (I am not sure if anybody here would know this one) What's the best way to find out where the sound is getting lost from my DAW (Alesis HD6) via my "sound card" (Firewire Solo) to MC4 using S/PDIF?

Thank you for your help.

- Frank
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    Mamabear
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 00:42:59 (permalink)
    To your first question--right click on fx and you'll get some choices for midi effects. That's in MC3 anyway, so it may not work for you. And half the time I don't know what I'm talking about.
    #2
    Beagle
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 07:38:44 (permalink)
    Janet's right! (woo hoo! ). there are already MIDI FX included with MC (3 & 4!). there are other 3rd party FX available, too, like Frank's MIDI plugins (google it).

    I've never used SPDIF, so I don't have any experience with it, but I understand the concepts. if you'll explain the way you've got everything connected someone might be able to help with it. without knowing anything about your setup, we can't really help.

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    #3
    Mamabear
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 07:59:57 (permalink)
    Ha ha. Surprised ya, didn't I, Reece?
    post edited by Mamabear - 2008/01/24 08:31:21
    #4
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 11:01:04 (permalink)
    Thank you Reece and Janet.

    WRT a) I think I will try the Frank's MIDI plugins...I should have known...with that name. :-) I was looking for some LFO's etc that I could engage. The MC4 MIDI plugin's are very limited in what they can do...or I am not knowledgeable enough to figure it out.
    WRT b) There is not much I could tell you, Reece, about the setup. It is just plugging in the S/PDIF cable from my keyboard to the "sound card" (Firewire). According to the keyboard manual there is no setting to activate it. It should be on all the time. From the Firewire it is connected to the computer via firewire. The Firewire Control Panel does not show any "suppresion" (? Is that the correct word if you lower the volume inside a control panel?).
    #5
    Beagle
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 11:45:54 (permalink)
    I don't think you quite understand MIDI, Urdypooh. in order to "engage LFOs" you need a softsynth. the MIDI plugins are for manipulating the MIDI data, in order to manipulate the sound, you have to deal with the synths which are triggered by the MIDI data - that's a different thing. Look at some of these:
    http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=results&st=adv&soft=i&type%5B%5D=5&type%5B%5D=34&type%5B%5D=42&type%5B%5D=57&type%5B%5D=24&type%5B%5D=47&type%5B%5D=35&type%5B%5D=48&type%5B%5D=30&type%5B%5D=2&f=0&fe=0&win=1&free=1&sf=0&receptor=&de=0&sort=1&rpp=15

    you'll have to investigate them to find out if they allow you to manipulate the LFO, filters, etc. but these are softsynths that you insert AS a softsynth, not as a MIDI plugin.

    for the SPDIF, "suppression" I don't think is the correct word, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean. do your meters on the soundcard's mixer move when you play something on the keyboard? If not, then the sound is not coming into the computer, but probably not even coming into the soundcard. your setup is relatively simple. it would have to be that either the keyboard manual is incorrect or you misunderstood it and you do have to set up something to make it output, or you have a cable problem, or you are not selecting the SPDIF as an input on your soundcard in your soundcard's mixer/app.

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    #6
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 12:41:25 (permalink)
    I guess I will have to get a different soft synth then. The TTS-1 does not allow a whole lot and/or find out how to better connect my DAW with MC4.

    Maybe the Alesis and the M-Audio guy will figure out my S/PDIF problem. (Just fyi: The M-Audio Firewire control panel does not show any input levels (= does not show if there is anything coming in).)
    #7
    Beagle
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 14:12:25 (permalink)
    right - TTS-1 is a GM softsynth and will not allow you to change the synth parameters because then it wouldn't match the GM spec. that's why I gave you the link above to look at some of the free softsynths and probably several of those will allow you to change paramters and make your own sounds.

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    #8
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 15:57:16 (permalink)
    Reece,
    thank you for your help. I am very grateful that you are doing this despite all my stupidity and/or ignorance.
    #9
    RobertB
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 16:12:35 (permalink)
    Frank,
    If you feel like buzzing up to Brighton, we could demo a bunch of synths I have installed.
    It might help to hear a few.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #10
    Beagle
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 16:14:57 (permalink)
    oh, no, frank! you're not ignorant! there are just things you haven't learned yet!!!! fun, ain't it???

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    #11
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 18:44:07 (permalink)
    Bob,

    for your PM box is full: Sure. I cannot manage today or tomorrow though. Do you have another day available?
    I am still hanging in a conf call right now for work and have a meeting scheduled for a little later tonight.

    Reece,

    fortunately I like to learn....especially from smart people. My motto: Scio nescio (I know that I don't know - Sokrates)
    #12
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 19:07:21 (permalink)
    P.S. Learned something new already again: I had a second while having been on the phone and now the S/PDIF works. :-) (It needed to synch from "external"...whatever that means.)
    #13
    Beagle
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 20:33:09 (permalink)
    AHA! well, that would be something that I wouldn't have known since I never use it.

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    RobertB
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 21:38:27 (permalink)
    Frank,
    I'm not sure what my plans are for the weekend (I'm always the last to know).
    How's Monday or Tuesday about 6:00PM sound?
    I'll email you directions.

    Good to see you got the S/PDIF going. Check that stuff Frank (ohhey) gave you in Gear. Lots of good info there.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/24 23:47:40 (permalink)
    Bob,

    have a look at your AOL account. :-)

    BTW the info that Frank gave in the "Gear" forum got me to change that setting. So thanks to him (as I had stated there) I got it going. :-)
    #16
    57Gregy
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/26 10:33:13 (permalink)
    I've got a question for you, Urdypooh. When using the S/PDIF from your keyboard, does it transmit the MIDI data, or audio? Or both?

    Greg 
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    #17
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/30 00:59:04 (permalink)
    Greg,

    it transmits the audio. The MIDI part just comes through the MIDI port from my keyboard.
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    57Gregy
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/30 20:59:50 (permalink)
    Thanks, that makes sense, but it would be nice if everything could be transmitted on 1 line.

    Greg 
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    #19
    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/30 22:13:46 (permalink)
    I know what you mean. Unfortunately MIDI is not descriptive enough to tell other devices how a patch sounds (outside of GM). And I prefer MIDI because I can manipulate single notes in it. (I am sure it is possible on an audio track but quite a bit more cumbersome.)
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    RobertB
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/30 22:45:18 (permalink)
    This is my interpretation, and I am open to correction. The S/PDIF communicates audio data but keeps it digital so that it is not subjected to a converter until it gets to the output device. It transfers a complete audio signal, in 1's and 0's.
    MIDI is only sending triggers.
    Frank, think of the Rapture patch we were looking at, with the arpeggiator. MIDI sends ONE note to start the sequence. The synth does the work, and translates it to audio. We could sent the same MIDI track to, say TTS-1/piano and get a completely different sound, and no arp. S/PDIF can transmit the output, but it has no way of translating the MIDI to the sounds it need to produce. It is two completely different signal types. I think you get the idea. It is much easier to do than to describe.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    Urdypooh
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/31 01:04:34 (permalink)
    I am not sure, Bob.
    You are right. S/PDIF is digital like MIDI. All the same it already has all the information to re-create the sound if the original device from which the sound was created is no longer available.
    (A fun thing to test would be to record the MIDI part and the S/PDIF part at the same time. :-) )
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    RobertB
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    RE: A few questions 2008/01/31 21:15:05 (permalink)
    We may have to explore that.
    At the moment, I think it would be like listening to a picture of a piano.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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