Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins

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robby
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/26 22:53:33 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: bitflipper

The only real difference between "hardware" and "software" reverbs is where the processing happens - in an outboard dedicated DSP or in the box by your CPU. (Unless you have a "real" hardware reverb like an EMT plate.)

Obviously, moving the processing out of the box relieves the load on your computer and allows the designers to use more CPU-intensive algorithms. Theoretically, that could open the door to higher-quality effects. Sometimes, it does. The high-end Lexicons are about as good as it gets.

However, IMO, this advantage is not worth it if it requires an extra conversion. It's really only worthwhile if the outboard hardware accepts a digital inputs and provides digital outputs. Only if you never leave the digital domain will you get the performance benefit without the quality hit. But even in this close-to-ideal scenario, you'll still have to deal with the added latency.

If:
- you just want high-quality reverb, and
- you add reverb only after tracking (so that latency is not a problem), and
- you don't have 2-3 grand burning a hole in your pocket
then just stick with Perfect Space and start cruising the 'net for impulse files until you find some you like.

But if you have the bread, pick up a Lexicon PCM96. Get me one too, while you're at the store.



http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-PCM96-Stereo-ReverbEffects-Processor?sku=180236&src=3WWRWXGB&ZYMSEM=0

Ouchie... I have the bread, but I think I'm gassed out for a while. Maybe the rest of the year. Maybe next year "if" we're all still around. I think we're getting close to the end.

==================
It is better to travel well than to arrive.

www.reverbnation.com/rockinrobby
#31
DH123
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 00:00:04 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: bitflipper



But I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that "something just isn't right with convolution reverbs". I'm trying to imagine what that means. I've heard classic reverb units alongside convolution reverbs, and the digital imitations are pretty close - not perfect, but close. Considering the huge price difference, it's close enough for me.





Lexicon MX300


If you've ever mixed a large heavy-rock project with real drums using a PCM91 and then tried to get the the same sound using a PCM91 impulse, it's clearly obvious. You can use more reverb without it sounding aweful.
#32
jonreingold
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 00:18:09 (permalink)
I have the VSS3 reverb for Powercore Unplugged (PCI). I think it sounds really good. I also have Altiverb. Personally, I think the VSS3 sounds a little better, but they are both high quality.
#33
TTY TECH
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 00:21:01 (permalink)
I aint religious, but Jesus h Christ, thats alot of money, maybe uad tops for me . someday. out classed, wayne in sf ca usa
#34
bunnyfluffer
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 02:47:10 (permalink)
I got my PCM91 last year, new for $1,600 - I'd say they should be getting cheaper now with the 96 comin'...
#35
John
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 03:54:44 (permalink)
Well its clear. Only use hardware plugins.

Best
John
#36
Paul Russell
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 07:00:31 (permalink)
Breverb.
Best verb plugin evar. Beats most hardware units

Paul Russell 
Calamity Studio and on Facebook



#37
SteveJL
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 07:46:19 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Paul Russell

Breverb.
Best verb plugin evar. Beats most hardware units

So ummmmmm, which ones doesn't it beat, hmmmm?

 
#38
Paul Russell
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 08:02:58 (permalink)
only the ones we can't afford

Paul Russell 
Calamity Studio and on Facebook



#39
DH123
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 08:29:23 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Paul Russell

Breverb.
Best verb plugin evar. Beats most hardware units


I demo'd it, it's pretty good.

Look, we're on a DAW forum so it's obvious non of us are rich and can afford SSL/Neve Consoles, 2-inch tape, and tons of rack gear. We all make compromises when we use software, I just think we need to keep it real.
#40
rosabelle
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 09:33:01 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: bitflipper
quote:
ORIGINAL: bitflipper
But if you have the bread, pick up a Lexicon PCM96. Get me one too, while you're at the store.

Too bad they aren't shipping yet.


Any day now. But I have heard them, and they sound amazing.

I've heard it too, and you're absolutely right. They are amazing sounding! The plugin should be a great selling point too--I just wonder how well it will really work...?
#41
pdarg
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 10:28:34 (permalink)
Breverb requires an iLok - so that's out for me.

Tried the IK Classik Studio Reverb . . . not bad, but Perfect Space with the Lexicon impulses sounds better and more natural in my opinion. I wish I could tell you all where I got those impulses, but I can't remember. Search the web, you'll find 'em somewhere.

Also, found out that the Lexicon MX300 does not integrate as a plug-in into Sonar (knew that earlier, but forgot), so that's out too.

I guess after all that, I am liking what I already have. I will re-visit this aspect in another year or so, but for now, Perfect Space with the Lexicon impulses are the ticket for me.
#42
pdarg
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 10:33:37 (permalink)
Lexicon PCM96 - looks great, everything I could want if I went for hardware.

Unfortunately, it's also $2,600 - so, like I say, I think I'll stick with what I have unless I win the lottery or for some reason have more money sitting around than I know what to do with.

#43
Mike Martin
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 10:34:04 (permalink)
Kurzweil Rumour

Of course if you can afford it the KSP8 rocks. I have one hooked up over ADAT.
#44
gordonrussell76
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 10:48:24 (permalink)
I am not a big fan of reverb, I tend to add it so sparingly its almost unheard, so for my purposes Plugins are fine.

I do really like Perfect Space, for something that came 'free' with Sonar its amazing. Thats actually my goto Reverb unit now. I also tend to use other approachs for verb.

For instance usinga delay plugin can be fun.

I also love using my Liquid Mix 1176 plugin which if you know how to set it, u can get a kind of reverb effect out of it, thats my goto compressor for backing vocals.

G
#45
Wiz
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/03/27 17:54:43 (permalink)
re lexicon impluses...


there were a heap at Noisevault.com and Jim Rosenberry (Studiocat) has them Lexicon impulses included in his IR package he sells.... www.studiocat.com...I purchased it, and its really cool.


I really like the "large wood room" impulse from the lexicon 960L impulses...thats very cool.

I too tried CSR and didnt like it very much....one mans reverb is another mans.......8)....

I have a lexicon MPX550 here in my outboard rack...which hasnt gotten used in two years!! Its just not worth the hassle and inflexibility, and IMHO, the IR's and UAD plate 140 , sound better , in context of sound and workability...

cheers

Wiz

(maybe I should sell the MPX 550)

Wiz's Album "Forty Years" done with Sonar 7!

http://www.ozlandmusic.com/ozlandstudios/Preview_music.html

Wiz On Itunes
#46
physicalpursuit
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RE: Reverb: Hardware or Plug-ins 2008/10/26 12:31:29 (permalink)
Hi,
I noticed the Lexicon PCM96 referenced several times in this thread. This may sound like a silly question, however, is the PCM96 compatible with Sonar. I read the products description a few times and could not tell for sure. Maybe I'm just a little slow.

If anyone knows please reply.

Thanks!

-Dan
#47
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