Myspace...the talent..remarkable

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thalweg
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2008/03/26 21:31:04 (permalink)

Myspace...the talent..remarkable

I dunno...off "tech" topic perhaps..along the lines of the David Bryne's survival thread earlier...

But, I need to rethink that piracy is killing the "commercial" industry. I've recently been more active with myspace and I'm actually very impressed...theres an incredible assortment of talented "amateur" musicans out there. I'm almost thinking it's affecting my "itunes store" attention. Sure, there's the obvious underachievers online...but WOW...the world really is a musical place.

Anyways...just an observation.


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22 Replies Related Threads

    ohhey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/26 21:50:10 (permalink)
    Check out my soundclick page, might like some of it.
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    droddey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/26 22:51:01 (permalink)
    File sharing is obviously an important factor, but the other is exactly what you found. A lot of people making music. When the supply exceeds the demand, something has to give. Same with the production side. When it only costs $100K'ish to put together a really nice small pro studio, a lot of people can suddenly do it, and then you have too many people competing for the limited work and it becomes very difficult to make a living doing it.
    post edited by droddey - 2008/03/26 23:09:06

    Dean Roddey
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    #3
    thalweg
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/27 11:50:14 (permalink)
    Ohhey...yup you got some really good stuff.

    I also prefer the Soundclick player for sound quality vs Myspace. I find overall that the charts on soundclick don't really contain a lot of "Compelling" stuff for me. They are misleading in terms of my personal tastes of quality. I find myspace music search easier and the results of greater quality.

    I'm thinking there is a growing market for hands on studio consulting. Helping others build their studios and training them on use. That said, there's so much free net information. I asked my local music shoppe on what areas he says he's seeing growth and it was largely computer/DAW related. His biggest gripe was supporting new customers is increasingly expensive via time consumption with floor staff.

    post edited by thalweg - 2008/03/27 12:08:40

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    ohhey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/27 12:02:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thalweg

    Ohhey...yup you got some really good stuff.

    I also prefer the Soundclick player for sound quality vs Myspace. I find overall that the charts on soundclick don't really contain a lot of "Compelling" stuff for me. They are misleading in terms of my personal tastes of quality. I find myspace music search easier and the results of greater quality.

    I'm thinking there is a growing market for hands on studio consulting. Helping others build their studios and training them on use. That said, there's so much free net information. I asked my local music shoppe on what areas he says he's seeing growth and it was largely computer/DAW related. His biggest gripe was supporting new customers is increasingly expensive via time consumption with floor staff.



    Many studios are not very savy about the internet and have not adjusted their service menu to meet the need and cash in on the boom. I think that is the big area where pro studios need help. They may also need help to update and make best use of their DAW and you can charge some money for that but I think the real need is to help the studio make more money by learning to help their customers get their music online and set up a compelling page no matter what service they use.

    The days of being able to sell studio time by simply saying "we have protools" are almost over. I think the next studio marketing line will be .... "we can put your music on iTunes".

    Talent developement is another key area. In the old days studios expected to get customers who were already fairly good musicians and were ready to start recording. Shows like American Idol have created a new market. I can see studios playing a new role helping folks who are wannbe musicians and at least help them find out if they have some talent. There may even be more money in talent development then doing recordings. If you advertised a "Idol tryout workshop" I think you could sell out.
    post edited by ohhey - 2008/03/27 12:38:18
    #5
    thalweg
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/28 12:19:32 (permalink)
    "Idol tryout workshop" thats an interesting idea. I'm sure you could make it work by setting proper expecations and not soiling the reputation.Unlike the modelling industry where they promise you the moon for a few hundred bucks for your "debut" portfolio.


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    ohhey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/28 13:07:34 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thalweg

    "Idol tryout workshop" thats an interesting idea. I'm sure you could make it work by setting proper expecations and not soiling the reputation.Unlike the modelling industry where they promise you the moon for a few hundred bucks for your "debut" portfolio.




    The understanding would be to show improvement. For example record the singer at the start before any coaching. Then after the session have them do the same song and apply what they have learned. Then let them and their friends / parents hear the difference. Most singers can improve just from hearing what they really sound like. But with modern technology you could show them for example where the autotune plugin is having to do the most work. Where they are off the note and by how much. Then you can work on their tone and phrasing and how well they stay with the timing of the backing track. Again by showing them the wavform and were it starts in relation to the music. I think 99% of singers (even pros) could get some vaule out of a class like that.

    One hard part about coaching singers is to get them to use their real voice. Many try to "fake" the effect of reverb (to their ear) by singing in this breathy diffused manner. This has almost no tone and sounds like an amature. You have to some how convince them to sing in their talking / yelling voice so all the tone is there and let the effects do the rest.

    After the vocal training you can set up a camcorder and do the same thing with their stage presence. Let them see how bad fast movement and looking down or away looks on TV.

    For a studio owner it does you and your customer no good to make bad recordings and flop as a performer. Both reputations will suffer. Studios need to take a more active role in setting up customers to win. Lead them to the conclusion (don't tell them) that they need to play to win or give it up. Being a performer takes a combination of talent and skill... you can't sell them talent but you can sell them some skills.
    post edited by ohhey - 2008/03/28 13:34:15
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    plectrumpusher
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/28 14:49:53 (permalink)
    "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006



    Found this quote in the signature of Mike Rivers over at HC. I don't know that even the most dedicated , partime home recordisit is going to get the seasoning enough to get really pro results at home , especially when you consider that most of them don't have a real treated room or iso-booth. It's fun to read the reviews of home recorded songs in Recording magazine. Always to much compression and siblance. Or the mix rescue series over at SOS .

    If you haven't got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart.......Then you are just an old sour fart!!
    #8
    ohhey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/28 15:36:27 (permalink)
    Making, performing, and recording music is so compelling that there are far more people doing it then just those that have the aptitude and talent. There have always been wannabes but in the old days there was a barrier to entry. You had to impress someone in the business or have a LOT of money to be able to afford to do a recording in a real recording studio. Making media (records) was also a big deal and could not be done at home. It was tightly controlled by just a few very powerful people.

    Technology has changed that. Now we have both musicians and recordist that have easy access to acceptable recording gear, guitars, amps, effects, mixers, and other PA gear. Not only is this stuff affordable now, it's available. The selection is incredible and you don' t have to travel to the "big store" in some far distant city to find something that will work, you can buy it right over the internet. You can also get your music on the internet for everyone to hear... good or bad.

    However, real talent seems to be even more rare then in the old days. Look at the number of people who try out for American Idol compared to the ones that are really good. The ratio is off the scale and that's just the ones that are brave enough and have the time to try out. I think a lot of good talent that might have made it to the radio in the old days just give up because they have a good job and don't have to try to make it. I just don't hear the good new bands and new songs every year like I used to. Most are just forgettable at best.
    post edited by ohhey - 2008/03/28 16:07:50
    #9
    ru
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/28 17:58:53 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: ohhey

    Look at the number of people who try out for American Idol compared to the ones that are really good. The ratio is off the scale and that's just the ones that are brave enough and have the time to try out. I think a lot of good talent that might have made it to the radio in the old days just give up because they have a good job and don't have to try to make it.



    yes...and it's a self-perpetuating loop. everyone thinks they are good enough due to perceiving the mediocrity of what's around them. it's like anyone can learn to do something competently, and that's sufficient. we don't value actual creativity, musicality, originality or conceptual relevance. so we're shopping for stars, voting our next idol onto the platform in a popularity contest.

    isn't something like william gibson's idoru inevitable?*
    if it's going to be nothing but tasty fluff, it might as well look like my fantasy too. :/



    * "idoru" or "idol singer"--an artificial celebrity creation of information software agents
    #10
    thalweg
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/03/31 01:19:23 (permalink)
    IF you haven't seen "chocolate rain" on youtube....well... all I can say is that its a morbidly facinating amateur song that got fairly decent mainstream attention (17 million hits)

    You will most likely get disgusted at first...but there is something compelling about it... what that is....I still can't put my finger on it.




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    Dave King
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/04/03 17:43:44 (permalink)
    You will most likely get disgusted at first...but there is something compelling about it... what that is....I still can't put my finger on it.


    I for one didn't "get" it.

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    #12
    Fog
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/04/22 20:52:34 (permalink)
    Frank the thing with "idol" and things we have here x-factor etc. there is only ONE winner.. Simon Cowell.

    He has 2 hour or whatever promotion of people he has signed up, he also owns the tv production company behind it. Then he makes money on the music.

    In the UK in earlier days he released covers of things, unchained melody was out here covered 2-3 times with various singers..

    to me he is just another suit, good for him if he is successful, but I have no time for him.

    There is loads of talent out there, that isn't mass produced image friendly tripe, without a big production team behind them would be just singers. If people want to go for that angle then fair enough.

    The majors have had it their way for a very long time, so if others can break thru solely on their music (and yep stuff they 100% made) I think it's good, but so much money is chucked at music that is mediocre at best.

    In the UK if you listen to radio its about the same 30 tunes on loop, so I don't even bother with that.
    #13
    bilbosblues
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/04/22 21:37:58 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Dave King

    You will most likely get disgusted at first...but there is something compelling about it... what that is....I still can't put my finger on it.


    I for one didn't "get" it.


    good one Dave

    check out www.myspace.com/hughmcgowanmusic
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    Philip
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/01 00:35:04 (permalink)
    I think its great that wannabes can become as good as they wannabe!

    Making a living on music seems like nothing compared to the awesome beauty of composing music ... even as a hobbiest. Hackers ... not virtuosos ... rule music (imho).

    I never previously dreamed of writing and mixing guitar riffs, piano, vocals, violin, drums, and orchestra ... then mastering them into demos.

    Methinks, Cubase and Cakewalk have really precipitated a lot of music for us lesserlings. One might now honestly state that one prefers his own music above all others.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    bilbosblues
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/01 00:49:16 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ru


    ORIGINAL: ohhey

    Look at the number of people who try out for American Idol compared to the ones that are really good. The ratio is off the scale and that's just the ones that are brave enough and have the time to try out. I think a lot of good talent that might have made it to the radio in the old days just give up because they have a good job and don't have to try to make it.



    yes...and it's a self-perpetuating loop. everyone thinks they are good enough due to perceiving the mediocrity of what's around them. it's like anyone can learn to do something competently, and that's sufficient. we don't value actual creativity, musicality, originality or conceptual relevance. so we're shopping for stars, voting our next idol onto the platform in a popularity contest.

    isn't something like william gibson's idoru inevitable?*
    if it's going to be nothing but tasty fluff, it might as well look like my fantasy too. :/

    this is one of the most compelling non-technical responses I've read on Cake in a while, adding to it the dying art of lyricism
    thanks for posting it; I missed it earlier in the week when I scanned the thread

    Frank's point too about many musicians hanging it up for a solid day job is as pressing daily as gas prices swirl and clubs spin more turntables
    where are we headed?
    I'm still hopeful, but tepidly so at times

    * "idoru" or "idol singer"--an artificial celebrity creation of information software agents

    post edited by bilbosblues - 2008/05/01 01:10:51
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    KenJr
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/04 01:48:29 (permalink)
    Hey Frank - how the heck do you get to your songs??? Do you hide the link on your soundclick page??

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    #17
    ru
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/04 11:46:23 (permalink)
    thanks for the kind words, jonathan.

    ORIGINAL: bilbosblues

    Frank's point too about many musicians hanging it up for a solid day job is as pressing daily as gas prices swirl and clubs spin more turntables


    ironically, after being laid off my 'solid' day job, the options are looking skewed.
    #18
    dappa1
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/08 05:48:13 (permalink)
    I tend to listen to music from myspace than I do the charts. Unless there is a song that really stands out but most do not. The amatuer stuff is more than adequate to my ears. There are some really talented people out there and the interent is the way to go. If you can sell your music online and get fifty people buying a week then that is fine too. don't aim to be in the media. Just do it to get some extra cash while you work!

    Music is a money cow all it needs is a bit of milking here and there. But then again with there not really being a market I think that mainstream record labels will give in eventually. The internet will get inundated and we will be forced to sit around the camp fire whistling dixie for our dinner. Dont put too much hope in making it now the competition is too feirce and the rewards to miniscule.

    #19
    foxwolfen
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/08 13:03:05 (permalink)
    As far as I am concerned nothing has changed but the tools. There is just as much talent as there has ever been, the ratio of good music to bad music is about the same. The only thing different is we are now exposed to a lot more of it. Instead of going to the clubs, or to the record store, we go online.

    Money will be made by those who know how to work the system, what ever system that be. Truly new talent will get heard (take Beirut for example) in much the same way it always was... word of mouth.

    Piracy however, is a bit of a problem. In the old days, you could copy an LP/CD to a tape, but that was a long process and bootlegging was only done by the dedicated and well equipped pirate. What most commonly occurred was we lent or borrowed our records and CDs (sometimes to be taped) which would have only encompassed a couple of people, but with todays technology, we can send songs to hundreds of people with one click of a button.

    I despise DRM, but given that for many people human nature seems to default to "steal if I can get away with it", I do not know what else can be done.

    A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything.

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    #20
    MotorMind
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/24 02:52:31 (permalink)
    I don't think that there is that much worthwhile on MySpace or similar services. Yes, there are lots of people making music, but there are very few who show some actual musicality. A lot of the stuff is just boring posing. I am just afraid that my own stuff might not be that much better. Of course, it's all okay, since you have to have a hobby, right ;)
    #21
    wst3
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/24 09:04:06 (permalink)
    two more cents worth...

    I haven't spent much time on Myspace, but I did used to spend quite a bit of time on Soundclick and a couple of sites that have already disappeared.

    There are some really talented folks making use of the web as a "getting noticed" mechanism, and I really hope they follow through with it. I find it odd that the best tracks I could find (overall best - good writing, good performance, good production) always seemed to be solo efforts or small ensembles, two or three folks max.

    That sort of makes sense when I think about it... it is much more difficult, and requires more resources, to record a large group. Either you are recording with a single stereo pair, in which case you need a great space and you have to understand how to place the players, or you need a lot of really good microphones.

    Anyway, there are a lot of really good writers out there, and some outstanding players, but by and large I find the production values (even allowing for lossy compression) to be lacking! And while I would never suggest that any stage of the process is easy, it seems to me that learning how to track and mix is possible, whereas learning to write is probably a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you really need that initial something for either? I don't know.

    I have operated a personal/project studio since the mid 1980s, it has had thre major "versions", and it is hopefully about to transition to it's fourth and last, but that's another post<G>.

    Over the years I've focused on my own compositions for theatre and film, and recording new artists. When I had the space I recorded entire bands, these days I prefer to work with solo or very small ensembles because of space limits.

    When a prospect visits the first thing I do is listen to them. If they aren't, in my opinion, ready to record I usually suggest that they return to the woodshed. Some are insulted and never return, but some go practice and polish their tunes and come back ready to go. I encourage these folks to post their music to the web, that is by far the best way to get noticed! I'm really pretty surprised by the fact that thus far none of the folks I've recorded have thought that was a good idea. They are, I believe, fearful of piracy.

    So it isn't just the big companies that don't get it... a lot of local talent (at least in my area) don't get it either.

    The model for marketing msic has changed, and it won't change back. That same market controls finding music as well. There is a LOT of dreck online, if you want to find the good stuff you have to be willing to search. As the search tools improve I believe that the good artists will realize greater success on line.

    I don't think that the wannabes are going to go away anytime soon, and I'm pretty sure that's a good thing. Anyone that wants to exercise their art ought to be allowed to do so!




    -- Bill
    Audio Enterprise
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    #22
    ohhey
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    RE: Myspace...the talent..remarkable 2008/05/24 11:29:23 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: KenJr

    Hey Frank - how the heck do you get to your songs??? Do you hide the link on your soundclick page??


    Click on my name on the left under artist/band for this user.
    #23
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