Ribbon mic

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Limelight
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2008/05/07 17:31:00 (permalink)

Ribbon mic

I am thinking of getting one the fat head only 150$

www.limelight.moonfruit.com
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    aaronk
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/07 17:49:12 (permalink)
    So?

    Actually, this has been the subject of other threads -- search for those if you want detailed comments.

    I personally have one, it was a good investment.
    #2
    wst3
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/09 10:37:55 (permalink)
    I was a little underwhelmed by the Fathead... and quite disappointed that this was the case as I really wanted to like it.

    I have a small collection of ribbon microphones, and I can guess that no matter which one(s) you end up with you'll be thrilled with the extra tools available to you.

    If you can get one to audition then absolutely give it a try!

    -- Bill
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    #3
    ohhey
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/09 11:06:47 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wst3

    I was a little underwhelmed by the Fathead... and quite disappointed that this was the case as I really wanted to like it.

    I have a small collection of ribbon microphones, and I can guess that no matter which one(s) you end up with you'll be thrilled with the extra tools available to you.

    If you can get one to audition then absolutely give it a try!


    What preamp did you use ? Most ribbon mics need a preamp with above average amount of clean gain, like 70db.
    #4
    wst3
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/09 11:25:41 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ohhey
    What preamp did you use ? Most ribbon mics need a preamp with above average amount of clean gain, like 70db.


    I guess I did leave a few details out... sorry!

    For the most part I've been really happy with an older SPL Micman preamplifier with my ribbon microphones. It has tons of clean gain and it is really quiet. I also have a pair of old Melcor cards that I modified for 72dB of gain. They are not what I'd call "honest", but I like the character some of the time. For situations where I don't need all that gain I also have a Presonus MP-20 and a Gaines MP-2 that do a nice job. And I have this lovely old RCA preamp that came out of a broadcast console, I don't even know the model number, but it is cool! I'm also playing around with a really high gain, all symmetrical, all class-A preamplifier design using those transistor arrays from THAT corp, but at the moment it still sounds horrible, so I don't use it much<G>!

    The ribbon microphones I use regularly include a Royer SF-12 and a pair of R-121a, a Beyer M-500 I've had since the dawn of time, and a real oddball, a Fostex M88RP. And every once in a while an old RCA 44 or 77 will pay a visit to the studio... wish I could keep them!!!

    Still, I was really prepared to love the Fathead... I had heard a number of recordings made with it that I really liked. However, in my hands it just didn't strut it's stuff, and that could be as much a function of me never figuring out how to get it to shine as anything else, but in the end I decided to wait and purchase one or two of Wes Dooley's new microphones, when I save up the pennies.

    Bill

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    krizrox
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 11:28:46 (permalink)
    This makes sense. I've never used a Royer but judging from the number of professionals who swear by them, I would guess that Royer mics sound better than most other ribbon mics on the market for a lot of reasons. Of course we're also comparing apples to oranges since the FH costs $160 delivered to your door. I wouldn't expect a $160 microphone to have the same quality of sound as a $2000 microphone but the "sound quality" gap has certainly shrunk in recent years. You can get a lot for your money these days thanks to our comrades in China.

    I've used my FH on virtually every recording I've done that involves a guitar amp or horn section. I've used it on quite a few vocal tracks too. I've come to understand what it is and what it ain't. It's a nice match for anything that is really bright or screechy sounding. It will really help to tame those ugly upper frequencies. It terms of vocals, it's not my go-to mic for vocals. It's more of a specialty tool I guess you'd say. I've tried it on acoustic guitar too and didn't really care for it. So it has it's niche. I think Cascade makes various flavors of the FH so it's a good idea to see what they offer and decide from there.

    I would put it like this - if you've never used a ribbon mic before you should definitely give the FH a try. It's a very affordable gamble. Very high quality build. If nothing else it's another tool to use when the situation calls for it. In terms of it being a gain hog, that is true to a certain extent but no more so than an SM57. It depends on the level of the source. A loud guitar amp or a horn section isn't a problem. You can run the FH in front of that and get enough gain out of it without having to worry about cranking up the trim on your preamp too high. The only thing to worry about is phantom power. Rode makes something called the PowerPlug which adds like another 20db of gain and alows you to run the FH with phantom power applied. Works great on the SM57 too btw.

    PS - completely off topic - amazing that a country the size of China doesn't have enough oil reserves to accomodate their industrial growth and energy needs. How ironic. We go to China (and countries like it) for the cheap labor to fill our gadget-hungry appetites only to have the whole thing backfire on us by rising oil prices. There's no such thing as a free lunch I guess.

    Larry Kriz
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    wst3
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 12:32:50 (permalink)
    Hi Larry,

    you make some good points!!

    ORIGINAL: krizrox
    I've never used a Royer but judging from the number of professionals who swear by them, I would guess that Royer mics sound better than most other ribbon mics <snip>

    Well I'll be slightly contrary... it isn't that the Royer microphones sound better than any other brand, it's just that they sound different. (In over 20 years I've only ever had one microphone I truly disliked!).

    To my way of hearing there are four basic food groups with respect to ribbon microphones, and the differences are somewhat explainable.

    First there are the RCA microphones, not that a 44 sounds like a 77, but they have similar "vibes", which may be purely in my head. AEA makes modern versions of the these that sound wonderful.

    Next there is the Coles, and again, different Coles models sound different, but there is a similarity too. I find the Coles to be quite dark compared to the RCA models, but for some voice over work they are just perfect.

    Next I would probably lump all the old Shure, Beyer, etc designs. Not fair really, especially the Beyer M500, but still, they all share that gentle but present high end that most folks identify with ribbon microphones. I'd also include the B&O, and it's relatives, which includes the Royer SF family.

    Finally there are the Royer R series microphones. These things are unlike any of the other ribbon microphones I've used. They have a very distinct character, and I think that's why folks like them. They are a new color to paint with.

    Actually, there is a fifth group, Fostex and a couple other companies experimented with using printed ribbons, and these also have a very distinctive sound. I have one, and I use it a lot on guitar amplifiers, as a side element in an MS array, and even on some female vocals.

    ORIGINAL: krizrox
    I've used my FH on virtually every recording I've done that involves a guitar amp or horn section. I've used it on quite a few vocal tracks too. I've come to understand what it is and what it ain't. It's a nice match for anything that is really bright or screechy sounding. It will really help to tame those ugly upper frequencies. It terms of vocals, it's not my go-to mic for vocals. It's more of a specialty tool I guess you'd say. I've tried it on acoustic guitar too and didn't really care for it. So it has it's niche. I think Cascade makes various flavors of the FH so it's a good idea to see what they offer and decide from there.

    You hit the nail square on the head... you know this microphone, and you know what it can do well, and that's the key. If I had spent more time with the FH that was loaned to me I might have ended up keeping it. But in the time I had it I never ran across those magical qualities that made it indispensable.

    Ribbons were intended, I believe, for horns and horn sections. The coolest horn recording I ever made used an RCA 77 and a Neuman U-67 in a spaced array in front of a semi-circle of three trumpets, three trombones, two alto saxes, a tenor sax, and a bari sax. These guys could play, which didn't hurt. The intent of the microphone configuration was to see which one we liked better, but the combination was just amazing. The RCA was on the brass side and the Neuman was on the sax side, both were about 8 feet from the center of the semi-circle, and both were about 8 feet off the floor. We ended up panning each one just off center, so the sound was really pretty monophonic, but the sum was greater than parts<G>!

    ORIGINAL: krizrox
    I would put it like this - if you've never used a ribbon mic before you should definitely give the FH a try. It's a very affordable gamble. Very high quality build. If nothing else it's another tool to use when the situation calls for it. <snip>


    Excellent advice. I'd only add that if possible one should try to borrow or rent the thing first... but then I think that is true of absolutely everything that enters the studio doors<G>!

    ORIGINAL: krizrox
    PS - completely off topic - amazing that a country the size of China doesn't have enough oil reserves to accomodate their industrial growth and energy needs. How ironic. We go to China (and countries like it) for the cheap labor to fill our gadget-hungry appetites only to have the whole thing backfire on us by rising oil prices. There's no such thing as a free lunch I guess.


    Not as off topic as I wish!! And your are right... TANSTAAFL!

    -- Bill
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    bilbosblues
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 12:42:09 (permalink)
    hello Bill

    what about the Apex or Oktavas?
    any thoughts on the 215
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    wst3
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 12:50:03 (permalink)
    I was not the engineer, just a happy listener, at a show where they used the Oktava ribbon microphones on a bunch of different horns and winds. I really liked the sound a lot. In this setting (smallish club with fairly dead acoustics and a very polite crowd) they were reminiscent of the old RCA microphones. Not as clear, but that could also be a function of the space, but just really pretty sounding.

    I've never used either brand in my own work.

    Bill


    ORIGINAL: bilbosblues

    hello Bill

    what about the Apex or Oktavas?
    any thoughts on the 215


    -- Bill
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    bilbosblues
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 15:26:58 (permalink)

    Ribbons were intended, I believe, for horns and horn sections. The coolest horn recording I ever made used an RCA 77 and a Neuman U-67 in a spaced array in front of a semi-circle of three trumpets, three trombones, two alto saxes, a tenor sax, and a bari sax. These guys could play, which didn't hurt. The intent of the microphone configuration was to see which one we liked better, but the combination was just amazing. The RCA was on the brass side and the Neuman was on the sax side, both were about 8 feet from the center of the semi-circle, and both were about 8 feet off the floor. We ended up panning each one just off center, so the sound was really pretty monophonic, but the sum was greater than parts<G>!



    fascinating
    post edited by bilbosblues - 2008/05/12 15:45:55
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    wst3
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 15:51:57 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bilbosblues


    Ribbons were intended, I believe, for horns and horn sections. The coolest horn recording I ever made used an RCA 77 and a Neuman U-67 in a spaced array in front of a semi-circle of three trumpets, three trombones, two alto saxes, a tenor sax, and a bari sax. These guys could play, which didn't hurt. The intent of the microphone configuration was to see which one we liked better, but the combination was just amazing. The RCA was on the brass side and the Neuman was on the sax side, both were about 8 feet from the center of the semi-circle, and both were about 8 feet off the floor. We ended up panning each one just off center, so the sound was really pretty monophonic, but the sum was greater than parts<G>!



    fascinating


    it was... by all that I had learned up until then it really should not have worked!!!

    I don't know who said it, but my mantra is "If I have to make a choice I'd rather be lucky than good!"

    Bill

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    kf10126
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 16:19:32 (permalink)
    Rode has a power booster that you can use with dynamics and ribbons to help with the preamp levels. It's called a power plug and you can order it from the Cascade site if I remember correctly. That's where I think I got mine. I have the fathead and it sounds good on my voice, I think. I have other mics that sound better though. My large diaphragms sound better for me.
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    aaronk
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/12 19:16:32 (permalink)
    I would put it like this - if you've never used a ribbon mic before you should definitely give the FH a try. It's a very affordable gamble. Very high quality build. If nothing else it's another tool to use when the situation calls for it. In terms of it being a gain hog, that is true to a certain extent but no more so than an SM57.


    Are you secretly living in my studio?

    I bought the FH because I'd never owned a ribbon mike, and based on reviews it did seem like a reasonable risk of $150. To me, it was definitely worth that price. I can't compare it to any other ribbon. My modest home studio mike locker has 4 mikes in it. One is an SM57, which, indeed, needs essentially the same additional gain help as the FH. In both cases, my modest little ART Tube pre gives plenty of gain for them.



    #13
    krizrox
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    RE: Ribbon mic 2008/05/13 01:04:28 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: aaronk

    I would put it like this - if you've never used a ribbon mic before you should definitely give the FH a try. It's a very affordable gamble. Very high quality build. If nothing else it's another tool to use when the situation calls for it. In terms of it being a gain hog, that is true to a certain extent but no more so than an SM57.


    Are you secretly living in my studio?

    I bought the FH because I'd never owned a ribbon mike, and based on reviews it did seem like a reasonable risk of $150. To me, it was definitely worth that price. I can't compare it to any other ribbon. My modest home studio mike locker has 4 mikes in it. One is an SM57, which, indeed, needs essentially the same additional gain help as the FH. In both cases, my modest little ART Tube pre gives plenty of gain for them.






    Yes I've been living in that big mixer case over in the corner. Those TubeMP's work fine with my FH too. Plenty of clean gain. I do seem to remember a few instances where it seemed like I was right on the crusp of the cut off point between normal gain and hi gain mode and had a hard time deciding whether to just go to high gain mode with the input trim around 7 o'clock or normal mode and the input trim at like 5 o'clock. In fact, I've had the same problem on my other preamps too. And sometimes that power plug adds too much gain so that's another problem. It's good to have some of those little in-line attenuator/powerplug adapters to push the signal up or down.

    btw - you know what's also good to have in your studio - saline solution. I saved a session recently by simply having a bottle of saline solution in my studio. Someone dropped a contact (or was having contact related problems where the contact got stuck up in the lid of the eye) and that saline came in real handy. Almost saved the day. Sorry - OT I guess Get bandaids too!

    Larry Kriz
    www.LnLRecording.com
    www.myspace.com/lnlrecording

    Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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