Need help with vocals

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perezlugo
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2008/05/15 20:27:28 (permalink)

Need help with vocals

I have a song almost ready (I'm using MC4) but I'm having problems with the vocal track. I record dry (no effects at all) 'cause I like to add the effects latter. I'm having problems with the dinamics, I mean high parts with to much volume and low parts with almost no volume at all. How can I balance this? I'd like to get a more even and consistent vocal part in terms of volume. Thanks in advance for your help.
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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/15 20:53:08 (permalink)
    You can fix that easily.... first...use the mic..close in on low volume work and back off for loud parts...that will give you a good starting point while tracking. You want it as consistant as possible.

    Once the track is recorded....if everything else is good except volume levels....you have a number of options.
    You can split the track into as many seperate clips as you need to without messing with the sound. then...highlight a clip and select from the top bar Process>audio>gain> then select the gain level increase or decrease. Normalize will also jump the levels up quite a bit, without overloading the signal.

    Suppose you have just a very small section of audio that needs a boost, such as the first syllable of a word. highlight the track..then click and drag in the timebar at the top of the tracks....it will turn dark grey as you drag the mouse. A bar will appear in the track indicating the area you selected...when you release the mouse. If the area is not right...do it again...also don't forget you can expand the track horizonally for more accuracy. OK the snippet is selected. process the audio and select your gain level.

    I used all of these different processes from normalize, boost +6 db multiple times as needed in the vocal tracks in Corridors of Time on my soundclick site. Also I used the snippet boost on the words Hourglass and Jesus....in the 3rd verse after the guitar solo.....on JUST the first syllable in both of those words. When I started, you could barely hear the first syllable. It sure beat re-recording the track...even with punch in & out.

    BTW...on Corridors...all vocals were recorded dry. HF exciter was inserted into lead vocal track after recording. The backup tracks were dry. All vocals were sent to the master buss. I had a final mix compression & just a touch or reverb there that applied to the entire mix. No other vocal treatment was used.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2008/05/15 21:16:39

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #2
    Beagle
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/15 22:13:59 (permalink)
    All good advice by Herb - one question I have, tho, are you recording in 16bit or 24bit? if you're recording in 24bit, you have much more resolution to work with and can easily let those softer parts get soft and the louder parts get loud as long as you don't run over ~-6dB and you have plenty still to work with during mixing. if you're recording in 16bit mode, then you have less resolution to work with and it tends to have a problem when you have a lot of dynamics in your recording.

    bottom line - the purchase of a decent soundcard with 24bit resolution will help.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    gamblerschoice
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/15 23:25:30 (permalink)
    Rather than normalize, I prefer a compressor. Good that you record dry, you can always go back to the original recording if things get screwed up. Normalize seems to leave artifacts, or maybe its just the way I used it, but I only used it once or twice, then went to the compressor. You could follow that with a limiter.
    But that is jumping ahead of...learning good mic technique. Stay close in on the mic, don't move around a lot. Stand up, back straight. Breath control, project from the diaphram, concentrate on the notes as they come out, keep your mind on the dynamics from the point of origin...your lungs. Stuff like that.
    Later
    Albert

    http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/lothlorienfantasy
    http://www.gamblerschoice.us/



    He's a walking contradiction,
    partly truth and partly fiction, takin' every wrong direction on that
    lonesome road back home.
    #4
    perezlugo
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 07:22:18 (permalink)
    Thank you guys!

    Guitarhacker, it could be time consuming but I like that system of working with clips. I didn't know I could do that (I'm a newbie in MC4, I bought it a week ago). I was listening to some of your songs and the vocal parts sound perfect. Someday I'll get to that level.

    Beagle, I'm recording in 16bit since I had weird latency problems with 24bit (I have a Creative SB live 24bit external sound card). If you know how to fix those latency problems let me know. Then, I'll be able to use the full potential of my sound card. By the way, do I have to record all tracks at 16bit or 24bit? Can I do some 16bit and some 24bit?

    Gamblerschoice, thanks for the advice on how to project the voice. I won't move all around, I'll try to stay static in front of the mic. You mentioned the compressor and the limiter. Well, I haven’t been able yet to really understand the difference between the two.
    #5
    Beagle
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 08:29:55 (permalink)
    Yes, Soundblaster cards are problems for recording with MC (and other DAWs) because they are not designed for recording - they're designed for gaming and home theater. there's something you can try, but my best advice is to get a better sound card. look at my website for recommendations on soundcards.

    in the meantime, if you haven't done this, then try it and see if it will work for you;
    go to http://www.asio4all.com
    download and install asio4all
    change to ASIO driver mode: OPTIONS>AUDIO>ADVANCED>DRIVER MODE = ASIO
    close and restart MC

    then see if you can record in 24 bit. if not, then a new sound card is the only way to go.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 08:36:59 (permalink)
    Perez.... that is not time consuming at all. A couple of minutes at most.

    When you finish tracking...if the audio waveform is tiny in the track and is low compared to the other tracks....simply highlight the track...or if there are multiple clips ...highlight the clips (with multiple clips...I recommend doing them one at a time) and process>audio>gain and it takes maybe 5 seconds. Then listen 2x & compare. don't like it edit>undo process audio... not enough...do it again.

    Same thing with snippit processing. it takes about 30 seconds to 1 minute to do it. Very quick and easy to fix minor level problems in tunes. In the example...I processed the first syllable in both words two or three times to get it up to level. It sounds OK, and natural.

    Gambler & Beagle are correct in saying that you want to record with the bit depth as high as possible to avoid artifacts in the end result. That's why I recommend listening to the processed track immediately after you process it...and before moving on to something else. Listen to it in the mix...and then listen to it soloed....so you can hear if any of the track sounds off or un-natural.
    I think the 16 vs 24 bit thing is a system default. Whatever it's set to applies to all the recording you do. If you can record 24 bit...that's better than 16 bit....more resolution.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #7
    gamblerschoice
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 08:52:38 (permalink)
    I just got this mental picture of you tieing yourself to the mic stand, perfectly rigid and staring straight ahead, and thought I may have overstated that part of the comment
    If you took the (wasted) time to listen to any of my music, you would see very quickly that I am NOT a singer. Maybe, to get better advice, you might want to do a little research on the net for singing and mic technique. I think I was just trying to emphasize that a lot of times learning the proper way to produce good end product is to have good production skills (which is to paraphrase the old garbage in=garbage out) For me there is no hope, I am tone deaf and my voice sounds bad, and you cannot make the silk purse from the sows ear.
    'Nuff of that, the other thing, you cannot mix 16 and 24 bit in a song, itis one or the other. There are ways to work around this, maybe export the instrument audio already recorded in 16 bit, open a new song in 24 bit, import that track and record the vocals in a 24 bit session, etc., but you can't have both bit rates open in one song.
    The difference between limiting and compression is something that would take a few minutes to get into, and I'm at work right now, so I can't spend any real time with that. If it slows down here, like maybe the boss goes golfing or leaves early, I'll write it out, or maybe it might have to wait till the weekend, but I'll try to answer your question or find you links to the information.
    Later
    Albert

    http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/lothlorienfantasy
    http://www.gamblerschoice.us/



    He's a walking contradiction,
    partly truth and partly fiction, takin' every wrong direction on that
    lonesome road back home.
    #8
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 09:17:57 (permalink)
    If you watch a professional singer, like Reba Macintire, or Garth, or (anybody who can really sing), Martina McBride is another good example of this. In any given song they go from quiet to full tilt boogie. Watch them when they are on TV... you will see what Gambler & I spoke of. As they sing the low volume parts of the song...they are right up close (eating the mic) to increase the volume of their voice at the mic, and when they are wailing away in the passion of the song,,,really belting it out....you will see them pull that mic back 12" or more...and the voice volume remains level. This is referred to as "working the mic" by manually balancing the vocal levels at the mic depending on the vocal volume level in the song.

    If you do this in the studio on your music, you should have a more consistant level in your tracks.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #9
    57Gregy
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    RE: Need help with vocals 2008/05/16 22:57:03 (permalink)
    To the subject of SB cards and 24 bit, check your documentation. My old SB Extigy was only capable of 24 bit resolution through the digital connection (S/PDIF) . Yours may be the same.

    Greg 
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