Peoples views on sampling ?

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kev11111111111111
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/24 09:52:05 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Bonzos Ghost

Playing a real instrument, composing and arranging a complete song and performing it is musical talent.


Hi,
I don't think your average listener would discriminate though !!
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kev11111111111111
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/24 09:53:18 (permalink)
I'll check them links out.Nice one mate.
Kev
ORIGINAL: Fog

sampling forms the backbone of the music that got me into music.. it depends on what/how the sampling is done.. there's blatant plagiarism and there's creative sampling.. a big difference.

go look up "timbaland finnish" on youtube for a big example of plagiarism.

I don't mind it ,but I do find it funny where some go on about playing something etc. and assume all samplists are just good at chopping up sounds (go listen to 4hero's later work it's LIVE on real instruments) . Just by sampling things and crate digging records you learn loads about all sorts of music. Although now, due to sample clearance people that changed the whole dynamic of sampling things.

do you think mr cooper/ the winston's would be so well known if it wasn't for his work being sampled later (the amen break)?

some things can only be done on samplers, and not in the real world..



acen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8v7dRXuzEw&feature=related
2:30

acen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfMlQJ5SeFo&feature=related
3:25

4hero - journey from the light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daQwHoyv46A

1:40 - time stretching.. yes 1993!!
you might notice something familiar sampling wise around that time also.

as for me, do I own a rhodes piano / wurly NO.. samples of them in reason.. could I ever afford the 3 grand pianos I have as reason refills? heck no.

it all boils down to what you do with the machine (sampler) . All the bands who were totally against computers, what are they bouncing their audio on to now.. so yer sampling HAS made it far more accessible for people to make music.. It's a means to an end for me , to convey what I want to.




#32
kev11111111111111
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/24 10:05:30 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Spaceduck

ORIGINAL: Fog

sampling forms the backbone of the music that got me into music.. it depends on what/how the sampling is done.. there's blatant plagiarism and there's creative sampling.. a big difference.

go look up "timbaland finnish" on youtube for a big example of plagiarism.

I don't mind it ,but I do find it funny where some go on about playing something etc. and assume all samplists are just good at chopping up sounds (go listen to 4hero's later work it's LIVE on real instruments) . Just by sampling things and crate digging records you learn loads about all sorts of music. Although now, due to sample clearance people that changed the whole dynamic of sampling things.

do you think mr cooper/ the winston's would be so well known if it wasn't for his work being sampled later (the amen break)?

some things can only be done on samplers, and not in the real world..



acen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8v7dRXuzEw&feature=related
2:30

acen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfMlQJ5SeFo&feature=related
3:25

4hero - journey from the light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daQwHoyv46A

1:40 - time stretching.. yes 1993!!
you might notice something familiar sampling wise around that time also.

as for me, do I own a rhodes piano / wurly NO.. samples of them in reason.. could I ever afford the 3 grand pianos I have as reason refills? heck no.

it all boils down to what you do with the machine (sampler) . All the bands who were totally against computers, what are they bouncing their audio on to now.. so yer sampling HAS made it far more accessible for people to make music.. It's a means to an end for me , to convey what I want to.


Great post.

I see sampling as just another technique for composition. It can be done creatively or it can be done poorly. The first heavily sampled album I ever heard was "The Globe" by Big Audio Dynamite back in '91. In it, ex-Clash guitarist Mick Jones took (his own) riffs from old Clash tunes, sliced & diced them and patched together a totally new, creative sound. That was what convinced me that sampling can be a really powerful tool for people who know what they're doing.


ORIGINAL: Bonzos Ghost
The stuff that bugs me are the songs that feature a few repeating sampled loops off someone else's album with someone rapping over top of it. I don't feel that there's a whole lotta creative genious at work there.

Agreed, I do draw the line there! I just heard that "Every Breath You Take" rap for the first time not long ago. For the first 30 seconds I was like "Huh? I wish that stupid dj would quit clowning around and let me hear the song!"



Hey dude,
hope you are well ! Thats real cool what the Clash guitarist did ! I think this is the kind of stuff I mean.Sampling can bring a totally new perspective in music that 'pushes' the boundaries,and thats a great example of it.
I know wat u mean about sometimes hearing a great song though and an Artist has taken a sample and sent the original song packing to Hell and back !! I keep hearing a song which has sampled Smells Like Teen Spirit.Well pretty much all of it.It has this silly girly girly voice on it like Britney Spears or sominks.Man my brain just about explodes when I ever hear this.Poor Kurt would turn in his grave LOL.I couldn't imagine someone rapping over every breath you take.That sounds a bit daft to me.Granted sampling can be abused in the wrong hands lol

Take it easy !
Kev
#33
Fog
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/24 15:34:29 (permalink)
It's more funny that Acen was sued by George Harrison for his tune "window in the sky".. acen + dyce were a power house as far as production house records went.. you'd probably know "let me be your fantasy" by Baby D.. that's dyce's work and he got ripped off. When it went big years later , that showed who the sharks were.

I miss the whole sample it, worry about things later side of things or the majors denied use of any sampling. Moreso due to the fact they wanted to keep grip on things, even if a tune was good, they simply couldn't buy into it it or control it from a money angle. It was more fun hoping the company pressing the records wouldn't notice iffy samples and refuse to press the vinyl.. (not that I know anyone who has ever done that *cough* )

there are plenty of things I'd really LOVE to sample to use and chop up , BUT some things you stay well clear off. esp. the Beatles. Their label (apple corp) don't mess.

tom's dinner.. DNA's rework of the Suzanne Vega's song.. lots knew of her because of this rework.
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxkzPsmY1Zg )

look at it from the angle of samplists also make credible remixers.. esp.. in 4hero's case, they rework a tune in their style.

Black Gold Sun easily comes to mind, they were respectful to the original BUT added their own twist at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxkzPsmY1Zg

"A LOT of people that think of themselves as producers but really are just loopy loopers " - kev11111111111111 , I have to disagree in the sense of it's what you do to the loops for a start, processing wise + say if it's a drum loop totally re-arrange it. Even moreso when the tools were far less advanced... an akai 950 + an atari ST.. and SERIOUS amounts of time mangling up things. It's what you do with the source material really, be lazy or be creative with it.

as for hip hop / RnB.. hhmm theres a lot of it I don't like now, as some of it is VERY lazy how the tune is programmed / arranged. The newer stuff I find that with. Ironically a guy in Drum N Bass (adam F) produced some of L.L. Cool Jay's songs, years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4iMHuwhaPE

is probably Adam F's best known song. It's one of the tunes I drop to none DnB people, and they like it, and hate to admit it.

the most well known things sampling wise I can think of that really made noise >

vanilla Ice
Blue boy - remember me
Danger mouse - the white album

people do sometimes approach remixers who do bootleg versions of songs, electric avenue by eddy grant, started out as a bootleg remix. Some have the sense to realise it's a new avenue (pardon the pun) to get a new audience for their music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-X2v6GcICY

the remixer fee is not a lot and the original artist is getting the writing royalties.. same with things like Jason Nevins remix of the Run DMC track "it's like that"

without sampling , there wouldn't be a lot of things I do like.. prime example .. daft punk.. and Kayne West has used their work (but yet I prefer Daft Punk's infinitly more)

There is another tune "timber" by "grantby" which I like also, that uses music off Bond films, but it's a nice tune.

the thing to figure out is if the person messing with the samples just likes making music OR is all about the money, a lot of the time it's very transparent their motives. Are they worried about the record companies share holders.. or the people who are the music buying public..
post edited by Fog - 2008/05/24 15:56:41
#34
doncolga
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/24 17:41:48 (permalink)
Personally I'd rather not do it, but whatever you're aiming for in your final project should dictate whether or not you do it. If I'm making modern dance songs that I gig with, then I've got no problem tossing samples and loops in because it can really spice up that kind of thing.

For my own music, I would NOT sample recognizable stuff. Loops that I'm licensed to use are certainly fair game though if the loops benefit the production.

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Spaceduck
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/25 06:50:00 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: kev11111111111111
Hey dude,
hope you are well ! Thats real cool what the Clash guitarist did ! I think this is the kind of stuff I mean.Sampling can bring a totally new perspective in music that 'pushes' the boundaries,and thats a great example of it.
I know wat u mean about sometimes hearing a great song though and an Artist has taken a sample and sent the original song packing to Hell and back !! I keep hearing a song which has sampled Smells Like Teen Spirit.Well pretty much all of it.It has this silly girly girly voice on it like Britney Spears or sominks.Man my brain just about explodes when I ever hear this.Poor Kurt would turn in his grave LOL.I couldn't imagine someone rapping over every breath you take.That sounds a bit daft to me.Granted sampling can be abused in the wrong hands lol


Hahaha, yeah like Fog & donco said, people should stay away from certain stuff... recognizable stuff like the Beatles and especially Nirvana (sheesh, Kurt's not even cold yet!).

Hey I just remembered, you're currently working with some hip hop & rap artists right? (How's that going btw? You wearin your bullet proof vest to the studio these days?? ) For that genre it's almost a requirement to sample something. I'm not dissing the genre; I'm just saying that sampling is part of what makes it so characteristic, just like heavy metal has to have distorted guitars. So yeah, I say go for it... find some really obscure groove from 30 years ago, loop it and see where it leads!
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Roflcopter
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/25 07:12:07 (permalink)
recognizable stuff like the Beatles


True, unless your name is Dangermouse, then you're excused. Gah, I like the Grey album better than either taken separately. No joke. I was never much into the old Beatles stuff TBH, I just recognize it like everyone else.

And Dangermouse made a statement with it. Shame the industry couldn't handle it, IIRC it nearly got the prize for best produced album that year.

For those unfamiliar with the Grey album phenomenon:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wp9u51yvTMQ

Ofcourse Dangermouse is a respected musician/producer in his own right:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vbfhXyfbIfo

(the hippy dude behind the piano)

I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Fog
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/25 13:05:33 (permalink)
Spaceduck

the first tune I made properly in a studio, with an engineer... I just turned up with a bag of records and even some tapes with snippets I wanted to use..Turned on the akai, and it went into overdrive. I always wondered what happened to Hamish, who engineered that, he done remixes for others about the same time.

the hook vocal/acapella was ultra obscure, from a 1950's or 60's record. Would I have known about the song if it wasn't for sampling , heck no. Yet everyone wanted to know what record it was from, to this day that remains a big secret only I know. Although it was tricky to find really obvious things hadn't used out of films / music etc.

Hip hop was really probably the thing that sampling got to known, but for me hardcore and jungle REALLY pushed samplers to the limits with new techniques to get sounds no one heard. Pitch shifting/time stretching/filtering up loops etc being the big main things.. now it's hard to get sounds that people haven't done that aren't tried and tested.

a friend did try to get a record pressed up featuring just the chord from the song "hello" by Lionel Richie... the pressing house went mad and refused to press it. It was really obvious where it had been lifted from though. Even reworking , cleverly arranging lyrics to sound like something different. e.g.. "hello is it me your looking for .. I can see it in your eyes.. you haven't got a clue".... edit out the "M" in me... and it means something totally different just by removing the M.

although where would I be without the winstons amen break, incredible bongo bands apache break... that's only the tip of the iceberg , there are 100's more breaks I could reel off..

the plus side, it got me to listen to ALL sorts of music, just to find a very usable small snippet. crate digging OLD songs was part of the fun and then really twisting up things and mixing them in with other things.
post edited by Fog - 2008/05/25 13:30:26
#38
MotorMind
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/25 13:17:33 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Bonzos Ghost

Direct sampling of someone elses recordings, looped, sliced and diced has never "done it" for me. I prefer to hear real people playing real instruments in real time. It takes a little bit of talent to slice, dice and reassemble pre-recorded music, but not much musical talent at all, it's more of a technical ability than a musical talent. Playing a real instrument, composing and arranging a complete song and performing it is musical talent.


Talent is overrated. All that counts is the end result, really. If it sounds good and has appeal to the listener, it is good, no matter how much talent the maker has according to others.
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Fog
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RE: Peoples views on sampling ? 2008/05/25 13:38:11 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: MotorMind

Talent is overrated. All that counts is the end result, really. If it sounds good and has appeal to the listener, it is good, no matter how much talent the maker has according to others.



I've said it before and I'll say it again (sampled outta ferris bewellers day off) elsewhere

the end listener is only concerned with the 2 channels of audio, the end result.. not how the musician got there.
#40
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