Helpful ReplyRequesting help setting up MIDI

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Rhoads/Emmett
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August 15, 08 7:12 PM (permalink)

Requesting help setting up MIDI

Hello to all!

Help!

I am trying to get my old Alesis QS6 set up and seem to be having trouble. My setup is : p4 dual core, 4gig ram, winxp pro, SONAR 6PE, M-Audio Project mix and of course my old QS6.
I have scoured the web and this forum as well as the manuals trying to find out what I am missing or doing wrong. I'll try to keep this as short as possible. If I play a single key that has info on 3 midi channels and try to record it into sonar it seems to record the info but when I try to play it back through the qs6 I can only play back 1 channel of info. I tried setting up 3 separate midi tracks each assigned to a different channel (track 1 channel 1, track 2 channel 2 etc) but it doesn't seem to be working. Am I asking the impossible from my old qs6 or am I just missing something really simple that is going to make me look like a really stupid noob?!?!

Any suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!
#1
Rbh
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 15, 08 10:51 PM (permalink)
As long as the midi channel on the Sonar track is assigned to None, the track should playback whatever information is recorded to it. In other words it will out put multiple channels. If you're sending and recording multiple channel from your QS6, make sure you check the event viewer to confirm that you have mutiple channels of information recorded. If that checks out and you're assigned to none then you may want to climb through the QS6 midi page to make sure it's receiving on multiple channels.

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#2
ed97643
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 15, 08 11:12 PM (permalink)
I have a similar Alesis (QS7). Are you certain that the Alesis is in mix play mode? That is key to getting all three channel voices to play back as desired.

HTH,
Ed
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ed97643
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 15, 08 11:13 PM (permalink)
Quote: "Am I asking the impossible from my old qs6"

NO, the QS6 will play back 16 channels at once, for sure.
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kellerpj
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 15, 08 11:48 PM (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Rhoads/Emmett

I have used a QS8 with Sonar for years. It's a classic and I really like it! I don't have my QS "up" right now, so most of this is from memory, but I'll try to let you know how I configure it to work with Sonar.

The premise of my configuration is that I use the QS's keyboard as a controller that sends MIDI to Sonar. Sonar then processes the MIDI, then sends it back out to the QS so that it can generate the sounds.

Here's what it looks like in a diagram-like fashion:

(press a key on the keyboard)QS->[MIDI events/data]->Sonar->[MIDI events/data]->QS(plays corresponding sound)

This allows me to play on the QS and hear the bank/patch that I selected within Sonar while recording the MIDI. So if I want a particular patch on a track, I just choose the patch on that track in Sonar and Sonar sends out the bank/patch change MIDI events to the QS to cause it to change the patch. It also allows me to put MIDI FX on the track that Sonar will use to process the MIDI before it sends it back out to the QS. So, I can add "MIDI Based" echo, or other effects on my MIDI events before they get sent back out to the QS and "played". Think of it as real-time MIDI effects.

Here's how I suggest you configure your QS to work with Sonar.

Start out by configuring the QS to work in what used to be commonly called "LOCAL OFF" mode:

  • Enter Global Edit Mode on the QS
  • Set Keyboard Mode to "OUT 1" (sends all MIDI out on Channel 1 and prevents the sound from playing)
  • Set General MIDI Mode to "Off"
  • Set MIDI Program Select to "On"
  • Set MIDI Out to "OUT"
  • Set Reset Controllers to "ON"
  • Set Controller Mode to "MIDI"
  • Exit Global Edit Mode
  • Enter Mix Mode on the QS
  • Select the Mix patch named "Multi" (don't remember the bank, but its the 01 patch on the bank and has all 16 channels enabled

(Note at this point, if you don't have the QS "hooked-up" to Sonar, you won't get any sounds when you play the keyboard. This is normal at this time.)

Once the QS is configured, you need to configure Sonar so that it is aware of the specifics of the QS (its banks, patches, etc.) An overview of what you will have to configure in Sonar is:

  • Configure MIDI ports used by QS to communicate with Sonar
  • Define the QS Instrument Definition in Sonar and assign the MIDI port/channels used by QS to the QS Instrument Definition in Sonar
  • Ensure that Sonar will record the MIDI events appropriate for the QS


It sounds like you've already configured the MIDI ports in Sonar, so I won't go into that detail.

To Define the QS Instrument Definition in Sonar and assign the MIDI port/channels used by QS to the QS Instrument Definition in Sonar, do the following:

  • Choose Options/Instruments in Sonar's main menu to bring up the Assign Instruments dialog
  • Click the Define... button to bring up the Define Instruments and Names dialog
  • Click the Import... button to bring up the Import Instrument Definitions dialog
  • Browse to the Sample Content directory in your Sonar directory tree
  • Find the Alesis.ins file and select it
  • Press the Open button to close the dialog, the Import Instrument Definitions dialog will be displayed
  • Find your instrument (QS6) in the list and select it
  • Press OK to return to the Define Instruments and Names dialog where your instrument will now be listed
  • Press Close to close the Define Instruments and Names dialog and return to the Assign Instruments Dialog
  • Select (by clicking and holding while dragging over the entries) all entries in the Output/Channel list box that correspond to the port and channels (1-16) of the QS
  • Select your QS in the Uses Instrument list box, a connection line should appear that points to your QS item you selected
  • Ensure the Save Changes for Next Session check box is checked
  • Press OK to close the Assign Instruments dialog

Now Sonar knows about the QS's banks, patches, bank select methods, note names, etc.

To make sure Sonar will be able to record the MIDI events appropriate for the QS. Do the following:

  • Choose Options/Global in Sonar's main menu to bring up the Global Options dialog
  • Select the MIDI tab
  • Under the Record section, ensure that Notes, Controller, Patch Changes, Channel Aftertouch, Pitch Wheel, and System Exclusive are all checked
  • Press OK to close the Global Options dialog

If I got this all right, things should be set up on the QS and in Sonar. To test it out do the following:

  • Ensure the QS's MIDI IN and OUT are connect to Sonar
  • Ensure the QS is turned on
  • Ensure the QS is in MIX mode
  • Ensure the QS is set to the "Multi" patch (mentioned above)
  • Choose File/New in Sonar's main menu to bring up the New Project File dialog
  • (Depending upon how things are configured in Sonar, you may have to specify a project name)
  • In the Template list, select the "Blank (no tracks or busses)" template entry
  • Press OK to close the New Project File Dialog and a new empty project will be created in Sonar
  • Choose Insert/Midi Track to insert a new MIDI track in the project
  • Double-click the Track Header of the MIDI track in the Track Pane to bring up the Track Properties dialog
  • In the Input selection list choose your QS MIDI input port and channel 1 (All input from the QS will now come into Sonar on channel 1, regardless of the channel we want it to actually record to or play on, due to the QS being in "LOCAL OFF" mode)
  • In the Output selection list choose your QS MIDI output port
  • In the Channel selection list choose channel 3 (any channel number will do) (the Bank Select Method should change to "Controller 0" if things are configured correctly in Sonar.
  • After selecting the channel, expand the Bank drop down list and select 1-QS6 Preset 1
  • After selecting the Bank drop down item, expand the Patch drop down list and select Brake Drum
  • Press OK to close the Track Properties dialog, the track pane will reflect the changes you just made to the track
  • Ensure that Input Echo is enabled on the track
  • Play on the QS you should see MIDI activity in Sonar and Brake Drum should be the audio being output by the QS

I won't go into how to troubleshoot things if this all doesn't work. That's another thread. But I certainly hope this at least gets you REAL close.

Let me know how it works out for you,
Paul
#5
papa2004
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 16, 08 7:56 AM (permalink)
Are you related to or familiar with Emitt Rhodes? Just curious.

Regards,
Papa
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ed97643
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 16, 08 8:14 AM (permalink)
Excellent post by kellerpj; that is exactly what I do. Very well said.

{PS, I assume that the OP's two favorite guitar players are Randy Rhoads and Rik Emmett?}

Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
#7
Rhoads/Emmett
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 16, 08 9:55 AM (permalink)

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Are you related to or familiar with Emitt Rhodes? Just curious.


I have heard of him but unfortunately not related.
#8
Rhoads/Emmett
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 16, 08 10:01 AM (permalink)
Thanks Kellerpj (excellent information) Rbh, and ed97643!
I will check all this out and let you know how it turns out. I do see a few things I did not look at so I'm sure the answer is here.
#9
Rhoads/Emmett
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 16, 08 10:05 AM (permalink)

ORIGINAL: ed97643

Excellent post by kellerpj; that is exactly what I do. Very well said.

{PS, I assume that the OP's two favorite guitar players are Randy Rhoads and Rik Emmett?}

You are correct! 2 guitar players - styles from classical, jazz, flamenco, folk, hard rock, metal. What more could you ask for!?!
#10
Rhoads/Emmett
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 17, 08 12:39 AM (permalink)
Update....

Thanks to the great info I am up and running!

One more question. The qs6 instrument def file allows me to access my program banks. Is there a way to access the mix banks?
Let me guess.. I probably have to write another def file for this...


#11
kellerpj
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 17, 08 3:33 PM (permalink)
Rhoads/Emmett:

That's great news! I'm glad you could get things working.

Yes, you probably could write another Instrument Definition for Mix banks and patches so you could easily choose a Mix bank and patch from Sonar. However, that changes the paradigm on which your current configuration relies. Let me explain.

Your current configuration allows Sonar to choose the banks and patches associated with each channel of your QS. However, when a mix is chosen on the QS, the QS chooses which program bank and patch is assigned to which channels in the mix. Sonar would have no way of knowing any of this and from what I understand, the Instrument Definitions alone are not designed to handle this.

You can have Sonar "record" the bank and patch changes if the QS is configured to send bank and patch changes AND Sonar is currently recording at the time you change the Mix. This however will not give you the flexibility to change the bank and patch of a track as a track property. You would have to edit the specific program change event in the MIDI data on the track in Sonar. You also would have to manually set up tracks for each channel in the mix to capture MIDI events generated by each channel of the mix.

I had tried this using the QS with Sonar like this in the past, but found it was limiting since I had to set up all the tracks manually in Sonar depending upon the mix I chose. But, if you want to give it a try, and need some help, let me know. I'd be happy to try to help you out.

Enjoy your QS with Sonar. I know you will.
Paul
#12
Rhoads/Emmett
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RE: Requesting help setting up MIDI August 20, 08 5:09 PM (permalink)
But, if you want to give it a try, and need some help, let me know. I'd be happy to try to help you out.

Enjoy your QS with Sonar. I know you will.


Thanks again Paul.
I think I will play around with it the way we have it working for now. It should keep me busy for a little while. Maybe down the road I will contact you about setting up the qs6 to work with mixes if that is ok?

Dave
#13
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