What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct?

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CajunBassman
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/27 14:18:17 (permalink)
I used Native Instruments Guitar Combos before upgrading to the Guitar Rig software. The last time I looked you could find OEM downloads of the software for less than $20. The combos are pretty versatile for inexpensive software.

CajunB
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Philip
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/27 17:37:30 (permalink)
Thank you Scott,

That was very helpful!

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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#32
droddey
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/27 20:08:33 (permalink)
I go through a pre-amp (Great River these days) then use Amplitube. After a long time really struggling for tones, I finally have started here recently to see the light a bit and understand how to use the tools I have to get good results. I had an LA-610 before and that would also be a good way to go for move vintage tones. But the Great River really adds a lot to the signal in terms of fattening it up and providing a bit of natural compression because the DI goes through the input transformer and youc an push it hard and saturate it nicely.

I used to literally sit there for hours trying to find a tone, because I really hadn't sat down and figured out what the charactersitics of each amp, cabinet, and mic really were and how you might combine them to get the tone you want. And I also would never use any of the stomp pedals in Amplitube, which was a mistake as well.

Though, having said all that, I'd still like to get a few low wattage amps so that I can do some parts with a real amp. It will be difficult in such a small space. I'd have to build an iso box basically, and there's not much room for one. But that's really the only way to do if and have the amp in the same room with you, so that you can hear what the mic hears and find the tone without the laborious trial and error mentioned above.

But I'd still use Amplitube as well, since it's not like I'm going to have some monster triple rectifier on 11 in my apartment. It will still let me get tones that I couldn't get in the real world in my current situation.
post edited by droddey - 2008/08/27 20:09:40

Dean Roddey
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#33
Philip
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/27 22:00:42 (permalink)
Dean, I'm wondering how these 2 (the $500 Amplitude and the $1500 LA-610) would compare to the DI input of my $1200 Portico 5016

The Amplitude offers serious EQ presets consistent and 80 'proven' guitar-gear emulations. But can't software due the same? NI-Guitar Rig, Sonar Flangers, Perfect Space, and even Z3ta come to mind. Also, if I got Amplitude I might become paranoid of irreversibly dirtying the dry signal chain for other manipulations. Of course, I'm not the virtuoso 'what-you-hear-is-what-you-get' guitar hero. (My guitar skills are soo unworthy as are my guitarist's ... they require dry signals)

IOWs, at the risk of losing explosive spontaneity of inspiration from not having Amplitude (... for my band's timid playing at any rate), I might (in theory) prefer a much dryer signal chain with my Portico or RME FF 400, alone? (Also, I/we are purely studio players, not excellent 'performers' at this point.)
post edited by Philip - 2008/08/27 22:13:10

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

Raised-Again 3http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12307501
#34
droddey
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/28 00:59:44 (permalink)
Dunno how they compare, sine I've only used the former. But unless the Portico is also an amp sim, they would kind of be apples an oranges comparisons, unless you mean the Portico + Amplitube vs. LA-610 plus Amplitube. If that's what you mean, they probably both would be fine. The LA-610 (or for less the Solo/610 which is effectively the pre-amp portiuon of the LA-610) just provides a very warm, full sound for DI'ing guitar and bass, though it's quite vintage sounding. It may not be what you want for harder rock stuff. So one DI/preamp probably won't always be optimal I'm sure. But that 610 pre-amp really does work nicely as a DI.

You always record a dry signal when you use an amp sim. You are just recording the signal from the DI. You can then play around with the amp sim settings all you want. That makes it very flexible. You don't have to commit to a particular tone until you do the final mixdown, though of course some things will affect the sound that you can't change, like pre-amp settings, how you pick, where you pick, pickup settings, etc... You can put non-Amplitube VST f/x before or after the Amplitube plug if you want, and that's not uncommon. So there's a lot of flexibiltiy there.

There are a few good software based amp sims out there, with Amplitube be one of them. Some folks like this one or that one.

Dean Roddey
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#35
egervari
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 07:05:48 (permalink)
Hi everyone, I uploaded a new version of my 'direct guitar test'. Was looking for some feedback - anything at all. I think it sounds better than previous attempts. It could be better.

Anyway, please give it a listen and let me know:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6838884

;)

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#36
mattplaysguitar
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 07:35:26 (permalink)
Sounds great man, really like the sound. I don't know what to recommend. Just one thing I wanted to just check, you are recording two separate guitar takes to do the panning aren't you? Not cloning one and shifting the track a little? Just that it doesn't sound like two takes panned at 85% either way, it's concentrated more on the right. It actually sounds like you have just one take panned to the right with the verb part if it panned to the left (which is a good technique in certain situations by the way - good to reduce muddiness sometimes).

And I know it's not related to the guitar, but that kick is annoying me a little... Just a bit too much slap on it I think. Makes it sound a bit old school with so much high end on it. I would cut that with a high shelf maybe 3-6dB? Personally. I don't know what it is about the drums, but there is something they need to take away the computerisation of them. What program are you using? I think they need a bit of randomness in timing and velocity added maybe?

Also it would be great to get a bass track in here!

Actually, I really think it would sound great with the two takes recorded and panned one hard left, one right, so they evenly balance and give a centred guitar sound. I would love to hear that.

Guitar sounds very nice though
#37
egervari
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 07:42:25 (permalink)
Nope, each take is a totally different recording. They are not panned at 85%, but at 50%. I could change this. 50% seemed fatter to me, and was also recommended by a friend who does very pro metal/rock recordings. I've had it at 80% too. I can't really make up my mind here.

If they really do sound the same, it's because I play it the same. I'm a pretty clean/precise player.

As for the drums, I could definitely remove from the kick. I actually added to it I think, but of course, I never tested it on different speakers, etc. I think I did add 3.5 dB to the low band on my multiband compressor settings.

As for humanizing, I did nothing to them yet. I'm using battery 3. What parts of the drums besides the hats do you recommend randomizing? The snare?

There is definitely going to be a bass track, two different leads, a new bridge, etc. to this song. This is just me learning about mixing electric guitars since it's totally new for me.

Thanks for your comments on my guitar playing ;)

My Latest Give it a listen and rate it please!
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7908838

My Music:
http://www.soundclick.com/KenEgervari

Specs:
Software: Sonar 7 Producer
Audio Interface: Edirol FA-66
Mic: Shure SM81
Guitar: Seagull Performer Mini-Jumbo
#38
egervari
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 08:05:21 (permalink)
Okay, I added some humanization to the drums in various spots, and panned them both to 80%. I also lessened the kick. Let me know it that does it ;)

My Latest Give it a listen and rate it please!
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7908838

My Music:
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Specs:
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Audio Interface: Edirol FA-66
Mic: Shure SM81
Guitar: Seagull Performer Mini-Jumbo
#39
jsykes
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 09:01:49 (permalink)
Another great techniques thread. I have learned a lot from you all's discussion.

Ken: I enjoy your playing.

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#40
Marah Mag
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 12:26:57 (permalink)
FWIW... the problem with the kick is not simply that it's too clicky, but that it's too busy to be that clicky. The kick is not complementing the guitars so much as its competing with them (and perhaps following them too closely, without enough dynamics.) And with so much busy click, it makes the drums, overall, too much. What will the bass do?
#41
egervari
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 19:26:59 (permalink)
Okay, well, I'm sure I can tweak that when the bass comes in. I probably just have to take out the double kicks. I just wrote in how I would play the drums naturally for this song. I'll play around with it. Thanks!

My Latest Give it a listen and rate it please!
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7908838

My Music:
http://www.soundclick.com/KenEgervari

Specs:
Software: Sonar 7 Producer
Audio Interface: Edirol FA-66
Mic: Shure SM81
Guitar: Seagull Performer Mini-Jumbo
#42
egervari
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/08/29 20:29:57 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jsykes

Another great techniques thread. I have learned a lot from you all's discussion.

Ken: I enjoy your playing.



Thanks!

My Latest Give it a listen and rate it please!
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7908838

My Music:
http://www.soundclick.com/KenEgervari

Specs:
Software: Sonar 7 Producer
Audio Interface: Edirol FA-66
Mic: Shure SM81
Guitar: Seagull Performer Mini-Jumbo
#43
Crg
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RE: What are some best practices to record a guitar in direct? 2008/09/28 11:54:25 (permalink)
There's all kinds of definitions of "direct". You should just put a decent preamp in front of the interface. Depending on what you want, clean-effected-compressed, etc.. Also it depends on whether you're using active pickups or regular coil and magnet types. I like the Line 6 Pods, they have a little bit of everything. For clean sound a good channel strip-preamp works well if you're not happy with the hi-z input on your interface.
ORIGINAL: egervari

Hi, I just recently started experimenting with recording my electric guitar direct into my FA-66. It doesn't sound terrible, but I notice palm muting and other types of strumming don't pick up well. Is this normal for direct? Is it wise to just avoid recording direct altogether? Any best practices to share (like plugins or settings) to make the quality better?

Thanks!


Craig DuBuc
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