Moving from GM to VST

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Awaken98
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2008/09/11 00:23:13 (permalink)

Moving from GM to VST

Hi,

I occasionally tinker with MIDI using a small (almost "toy") keyboard and the ancient software that came with it, Voyetra MIDI Orchestrator Plus, circa 1995. It is rendered via a Sound Blaster card with Creative's 8MB sf2 bank. Certainly not a pro setup, but good enough for my needs. I do have *some* standards, though, and can't just use the MS Wavetable Synth built into Vista!

I'd rather not be tied to the Creative hardware, though, so I'm looking for alternatives that are roughly the same quality as the 8MB GM bank I've used. I've never tried VSTs or VST hosting software before, so I've been trying to sort out how that works via the demo version of Sonar 7, and a lite edition of Cubase (1.5, an older version) that came bundled with a sound card. From reading the docs and tutorials, it sounds like I would like the "Universal Sound Module" VST that comes with cubase as a first step past a GM soundfont. Sanity check: am I right? Unfortunately, I'm getting no sound output from this VST in either program, though I've followed the tutorials, and I do get sound with another simple VST, so I don't think I'm going about the process incorrectly. Is there a different but comparable free/demo VST I can find so I can hear what quality level I'm talking about here?

As an alternative, I would be happy enough just to find a software MIDI driver that plugs into Windows' MIDI architecture the way a hardware driver does, if there is a decent GM bank for it or it accepts sf2's. Creative has done this with their laptop cards, emulating their hardware renderer in software, so I imagine there must be others around.

I'm a little bit lost hitting the wide world of VSTs for the first time, and I'm keeping in mind that for $80, I can just buy a new X-Fi Ti and skip the problem entirely. Any advice for someone lost in past decades of MIDI?

Thanks!
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/11 06:23:57 (permalink)
    IIRC it's difficult to find anything that isn't better than the standard 8 Gb GM soundset.
    There are many inexpensive or free software to use VST's in. You can get a good overview of the sound quality offered in Sonar by checking the soft synths it inludes.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #2
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/11 08:36:52 (permalink)
    Awaken 98... your quest for the better sound has just begun. Welcome to the Cakewalk forums.....I read in your post that you are using the LE version of Sonar.....I do not know what synths...if any are bundled with LE, since it is a "teaser" version to get you to buy something. (They gave it to you free...after all) Check in the insert soft synth dropdown and see if TTS , Ederol or some other synth is listed. TTS is what you are looking for. If it's not there...I would recommend buying the downloadable version of Music Creator 4...it's only $35 and comes with TTS...and it is a very capable DWA platform...I use it.

    Second thing.... I don't mean to overwhelm you, however, the soundblaster card in your computer is NOT designed to work well with digital recording platforms. It might be OK to start with simple stuff, but when you start recording mutliple tracks, and especially when you start using midi and soft synths....you will quickly realize the limitations of the factory SB card. For now...see if you can work with what you have but begin now to search for an interface that will do what you need and NOT choke on the data your DAW will put through it.

    There are much better sounds available in several different formats.

    The GM from the computer's sound card usually is the worst sounding of the bunch. (lower quality sound...it sounds "fake")

    The next step is to learn about inserting a soft synth and getting it working. I use Music Creator 4 which came with the soft synth TTS. This is a decent synth, very capable, and has a large number of patches (voices) included with it. It can handle 16 different midi tracks at the SAME time. Go through tutorial #8 on inserting a soft synth..one step at a time....or for a more detailed explanation in plain language, visit my site where I explain this process step by step from opening a new blank project to having 3 midi tracks running through TTS....piano, bass, & strings.

    The next step up in sound quality comes from sound fonts (sampled sounds) and the player is SFZ. This is also on my site. I use SFZ now in every project. It provides a superior piano & bass sound.

    the site is www.herbhartley.com and navigate to the music page>mc4 and follow it step by step..... if you don't have a midi input from the soundcard this may not work exactly like it's shown on the page. My info assumes that you have a decent interface or pro level sound card installed. Give it a try.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2008/09/11 08:42:39

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    #3
    keith
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/11 10:57:32 (permalink)
    I agree, TTS may be the best software stepping stone out of the SB hardware world...

    Gary Garritan should be coming out with his "GEM" product in the near future: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62148

    Sounds like they're porting it to the new Aria player, and not releasing it on the Kontakt player platform. This will probably the ultimate solution for overall GM quality, we'll see.

    There are also many free GM soundfonts available on the net, though honestly I can't attest to their quality. Those could either be dropped into your existing hardware, or loaded into an SF2 compatible player like SFZ or just about any free/shareware/commercial sample playback engine (may engines support SF2 directly or via conversion).

    Also, Sonivox (formerly Sonic Implants) has both 24MB and 250MB GM SF2s available for download -- the 24MB versionhas been around for a while, but the 250MB version could be a winner!

    http://www.sonivoxmi.com/ProductList.asp?lstSort=Synth&lstSynthSearch=Soundfont

    Probably a step up from the 8MB SF2, if you can't wait for Garritan's GEM. Of course, with the 250MB version you would either need a later SB with enough hardware memory to load it OR you could go all software and plug the SF2 right into SFZ or some other compatible SF2 player/importer.

    BTW, as a user of some of the older Sonivox (Sonic Implants) drum, percussion, guitar, bass, etc. products, I can attest to their quality. Even there 10MB(!) stereo piano soundfont was impessive for it's size!

    So... my recommendation is to start weaning yourself off of the hardware, and start looking at software solutions -- this is ultimately going to give you the most flexibility and scalability, and therefore best quality overall. Again, the SFZ (or SFZ+) player that comes with various cakewalk products can load SF2s directly, but there are many other SF2 and sample playback option out there for plaing SF2s (or converting to some native format).
    #4
    keith
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/11 11:28:34 (permalink)

    Ok, just did some pricing... I think the Music Creator 4 route may be the way to go...

    Music Creator 4 -- $35 download from CW (supports VSTi, such as SFZ+)
    SFZ+ *** -- $60 download from CW (you'll need this to have 16-channel SF2 support in software)
    250MB GM soundset from Sonivox -- $100

    Total: $200

    That will get you a.) out of the 1995 realm of sequencing software, and b.) a high quality GM soundset running in software.

    *** One thing to watch out for is that SFZ+ has had an issue in the past with running properly on multicore machines. Supposedly a fix is available, but I don't know if it was ever released, not sure. If you're not currently running on dual core then it's a moot discussion, for the time being. You can also look for alternative playback engines -- e.g. up until Sept 15 Image Line is having a ~40% off sale on a lot of their products, including "Direct Wave" which is a software sampler that loads... SF2! You can download Direct Wave for $60:

    http://www.flstudio.com/blog/60_blog.php?entry_id=1220435087

    Direct Wave gives you a whole bunch of other import and patch creation options as well, that you wouldn't get with SFZ+, which is essentially just a playback engine. On the plus side, SFZ+ I think supports up to 256 voice polyphony, while Direct Wave is limited to 128, I believe. In practice shouldn't be an issue, and worst case you just load another instance of DW.

    Personally, I'd swap Direct Wave for SFZ+ for the same price... but you'd need to do that by Sept 15...
    #5
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/11 13:56:36 (permalink)
    You can get the SFZ player for free.... it plays one font at a time.... SFZ+ is the player that allows 16 (I believe) fonts at the same time like TTS with midi patches..

    Since I only use two or three fonts at a time (16 is way to many for me) I am content to use the free SFZ player.

    get it here: http://www.project5.com/products/instruments/sfz_player/default.asp

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    Legion
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/12 04:23:12 (permalink)
    I think the posts before me are full of great ideas that will suit you well, what I would reccomend as well if you make music is to buy a dedicated soundcard (there are some pretty cheap but decent ones out there) that comes bundled with Sonar LE wich for the price (free with the soundcard) is a very capable DAW. After that buy a copy of Computer Music Magazine and you will get lots of great synths, samplers etc that will take you a real long way for a very great price.

    Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
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    Awaken98
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/12 04:24:00 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone,

    It doesn't look like my demo Sonar or Lite Cubase include any soft synths other than the USM one that doesn't work for me, and a bass-only one that doesn't help other than to prove that I'm not hooking up USM wrong (in any obvious way).

    I've looked at SFZ, loaded a soundfont, and seen that my keyboard works. Can it accept a MIDI file as input, though? If not, is there an equivalent program that can? One big part of what I'd like to do is simply be able to play my existing MIDI files with my existing sf2 or equivalent, without going through the SB hardware. My OEM-bundle CD with Cubase also has a lite version of FL Studio, so I'll try that out tomorrow.

    I'll look into everyone's other suggestions as well
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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Moving from GM to VST 2008/09/12 09:11:09 (permalink)
    Awaken98....

    SFZ does use a midi file as it's source... Basically..SFZ is a synth, just like TTS is a synth. It will appear in your list of synths when you choose to load a synth.

    TTS uses the GM banks in it.... SFZ uses the fonts available to it ...to produce the audio.

    You can record midi into a track from any midi source you desire...that recorded midi is nothing but data. You output that midi source track to the SFZ synth.....and from the SFZ interface choose your sound font. The font can be piano, bass, sax, flute, or bagpipe fonts...it doesn't matter.
    ALSO...you can play this font as a "live" instrument as well...just have the midi track set up to play through SFZ and simply play the keys and you get the sound font you chose.

    edit: ditto on Legion...get a dedicated sound card/interface.... once you start using synths you will have latency issues (delays in the music playback between tracks) and there is no easy solution to that except to have a sound card/interface that can handle the data without choking. Plan to spend $100 to $300 for a decent interface....pricing will vary depending on your needs......number of channels...audio/midi...outputs.....USB or Firewire.

    edit#2: don't be afraid to spend money on a good interface....it's the heart of your system...you will not regret it.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2008/09/12 09:17:51

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