new digital mixer

I've done a quick search (and found the recent thread regarding if there is a NEED for a mixer). My question is (I've already decided I'm upgrading my mixer (currently using an old Mackie 1604 VLZ pro) to a digital one that would use firewire. I'm looking at:

A&H ZED R16
Mackie Onyx

I'm not sure what other good options there are. Does anyone have any pros/cons for either or any better recommendations? I'd like at least 16 channels. Budget is up to about 3k. Thank you for your thoughts / ideas.

Scott

Papa has a great point, that Mackie is a proven workhorse. The only thing is Allen and Heath are packaging Cakewalk product with it. So I would think you be okay if that model has what you're looking for. We have an old A&H at the church I attend and it is still going strong.

Ed

Have always been happy with my 1604-VLZ Pro, though on the way into it with a signal, I'm only using the preamps (channel inserts), and so it's predominantly a monitoring tool. I hesitate to ask, for fear I might suddenly develop a need to spend money, but what are the primary capabilities you feel the need to upgrade to?

Thanks for all of the replies.

Regarding want / need for a mixer now - I'm not in a particular hurry. Papa noted above, "I would wait to see what options are available and how they "supposedly" work with specific DAW formats." I'm pretty new to digital recording - is there a way to get this info? Periodicals that have these reviews (or on-line)? As I said - no real hurry, but I'm going to re-record a pretty big project at the end of the year...and I'd LIKE (but not need) to have something in place prior.

I'll take a closer look at the Presonus unit - has anyone used it?

Regarding why the switch from the VLZ. I've had several 1604's over the year largely for live sound (in the early days...). It's not a BAD mixer...but several years ago I purchased a A&H 2800 for live use and the preamps are SO MUCH BETTER - it's really unbelivable until you hear it. Additionally, the VERY usable EQ is 1000% better than the Mackie. Finally, I was a friends studio a month ago recording some vocal parts and he had just upgraded and we were able to A/B from his old VLZ pro (flat eq) to the new pre-amps (it was some rack mount $4500 unit - 1 or 2 input) and the differnce was amazing. Again, I think for a what it is...the 1604 is a workhorse, I'm just looking for less color from the pre-amps (and can't afford $30,000 in REALLY good gear!!). My current A&H resides in a flight case in my truck...and it's WAY too big to fit into my tiny studio (if I want to get any instruments in with me!).

Fog - what did I miss...what firewire issues have you seen / heard?

Thanks again for all the info!

Scott

ORIGINAL: WDI

What about Tascam DM-3200 or 5200.

http://tascam.com/products/dm-3200.html

Nice little video on the page.

I always thought they looked like nice digital consoles for recording.

Quote from the website:

The DM-3200 provides a new way to record with DAW recording software. With the addition of an optional expansion card, the IF-FW/DM FireWire interface, the DM-3200 becomes a 24-channel computer audio interface, making it a complete studio solution for professional DAW recording. Built-in HUI and Mackie Control emulation allows the console to function as a flexible control surface for workstation software.

Edit:

Oh 3k budget. Probably by the time you got it configured how you would need it I think it's probably more around 4k.

You are looking at 3500. You don't really need the meter piece because you have it in the software. So, all you need is the DM-3200 and the Firewire card. This is a great piece and I just paid it off through AMS.

The allen and heath is supposed to start shipping soon. It looks like the bees knees in a lot of ways, but it is not a digital mixer. It is analog with a digital interface built in, midi control, as well as switchable faders from analog to digitial. Depending upon the convertors, it could be one of the best low/mid priced deals out there. The cool thing is you can use the all the analog input going into digital (eq etc.) and then use it again coming out so it is a summing amp - ie. 16 channels through eq/busses mixed down to your stereo out.

A&H hardware is very workman - not esoteric but it won't stop you from sounding excellent. If the digital quality is as good and the midi implementation works, it could be a very nice piece of work. Analog mixer, digital interface, midi control all rolled into one.

So, I don't know what your timeline is, but it might be worth the wait.

Well I can't say anything about Sonar7 because I'm still using Sonar4. For the most,the MCU works good. As a control surface I am able to use the faders, pans but I haven't figured out how to be able to use the plugins like EQ, Reverbs. Its hard to say if will control all of that but the drivers are solid and the EQ, Comp and 2 effects processors that it comes with are great. I still haven't looked at all the possibillities that this board has and I have been working with it for 5 months now. The progress with me using it is good. One thing I really like about this piece especially with the firewire card, is that the main level is always from controlled by the board. I used to use the Emu cards and when I was mixing songs, to me, there were too many volume controls to set up properly and I never got it right. I don't know if any of that made sense to you but like I said you only have 1 volume out of the DM-3200 and it is ligit. Hope that helped

The DM-3200 has 32 channels going in and 32 channels going out, it has 16 busses and 8 Aux plus 4 more Aux sends on the mixer section. Also, the trasport section play, stop and record buttons work really well on the board. I have no complaints about this piece. For me, it was worth the investment.

ORIGINAL: WDI

What about Tascam DM-3200 or 5200.

http://tascam.com/products/dm-3200.html

Nice little video on the page.

I always thought they looked like nice digital consoles for recording.

Quote from the website:

The DM-3200 provides a new way to record with DAW recording software. With the addition of an optional expansion card, the IF-FW/DM FireWire interface, the DM-3200 becomes a 24-channel computer audio interface, making it a complete studio solution for professional DAW recording. Built-in HUI and Mackie Control emulation allows the console to function as a flexible control surface for workstation software.

Edit:

Oh 3k budget. Probably by the time you got it configured how you would need it I think it's probably more around 4k.

I am so frustrated because I have been looking at this thing since it 1st came out - This seems like the ultimate solution for a project studio but I have such a bad taste in my mouth from dealing with Tascam's Tech support in regards to the FW1884 - The hardware itself has been very reliable for the most part but the tech support has been awful.

I have heard that the support for the Digital Mixers is much better - Can you guys that use this confirm that? I hear set up is a little tricky but once you get there it is a very tight integration - true?

I am just so gun-shy about dealing with Tascam but this thing looks amazing for 3 grand...

Yeah, I felt it was just a small over-sight. I think they just want a mixer that will intergrate well with Sonar. Acually, A&H ZED R16 sounds like a nice mix, kinda the best of both worlds.

That Tascam board and it's big brother (the 4800...didn't see a 5200 there) looks like a fantastic machine. I have a Mackie Onyx 1640, and it's a great board--but it ain't no control surface. So if you can afford it, that looks like a nice option.

The way to look at it is this, I guess: I paid $1500 for the 1640 and the firewire card. Now add another $2K or so to get 16 tracks of Mackie MCU. So even without talking about C4 for your VSTs, you are talking about more money than for the Tascam, which seems to be around $3K online. It's big brother can apparently be had for another $800 or so.

If I was in the market for a digital mixer and in your shoes, I would look at it real hard.

TB