Dynamics vs. Compression

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Philip
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2008/09/19 12:07:48 (permalink)

Dynamics vs. Compression

A touchy topic, to be sure. What are your pet-peaves/suggestions on dynamics vs. compression.
Peradventure offer some specifics of your dynamics vs. compression on your latest releases.

One day I eschew compression, the next day I'm modern with it! Ouch!

Methinks Certain genre's, styles, modernizations, etc. may justify more dynamics: country, orchestra, ballad, etc.

I'm not sure the mastering engineer(s) are aware of genre peculiarities ... more and more I'm not trusting local (Huntsville, AL) ME's, based on what I'm hearing and reading.
post edited by Philip - 2008/09/19 17:05:39

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    rumleymusic
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/19 12:31:55 (permalink)
    I'm not sure the mastering engineer(s) are aware of genre peculiarities ... more and more I'm not trusting ME's, based on what I'm hearing and reading.


    You mean after the Metallica fiasco?

    Right now I am mastering a CD for a local orchestra. Included is a very nice recording of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. If you are familiar with that piece, you'll know it begins with a very soft, very low twisting line in the bass and cello. The piece stay rather soft until the Infernal Dance, where there are lots of massive "hits" and fortissimo brass. The problem is, the conductor listens to the music in his car, whether that is because he does not have a good home stereo or doesn't know how to use it, I don't know. So he cannot hear the beginning of the piece. So he has asked me to bring up the volume.

    Now, I can't raise the volume of the entire piece by using a limiter or compressor, because that would wipe out all the startling hits in the infernal dance (I've increased the dynamics enough to where only the highest peaks are attenuated and there is still a massive punch at the beginning of the Infernal Dance.) So I have to take a volume envelope and raise the volume of the begging of the piece to a level that the conductor can hear in his car, but still maintains a significant dynamic contrast to the Dance.

    What gets me, is that I'm the engineer and I'm more concerned about the audio quality and dynamic contrast than the orchestra's music director.

    As a general rule, and I think most listeners would agree with me. Master Buss Compression/Limiting, what have you, in any kind of music, is fine if used to control wild peaks that cannot be considered "musical". (I think using compression for other purposes, like altering the timbre of a drum set is fine, so long as it is not squashed to hell).

    To abuse it, or to alter a musical passages dynamics just so it is listenable in a loud car, is just sad. That is my pet-peave
    post edited by rumleymusic - 2008/09/19 12:35:10
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    krizrox
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/19 13:44:47 (permalink)
    Mastering engineers are almost forced to do what they do because the market dictates it. I'll bet if you told a mastering engineer not to make a loud master they would jump for joy.

    In terms of compression overall, it's a useful tool just like Auto-tune or EQ or a hammer. I have no pet peeves about compression. What exactly are you trying to get at?

    Larry Kriz
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    Philip
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/19 17:04:09 (permalink)
    Basically, I'm trying to appreciate and learn more dynamics and respect for transients (I'm at an advanced beginner's level or intermediate level)

    I read about the "Metallica fiasco", but I've always been concerned about which transients are most vital; which dynamics are most vital, etc. ... long before this.

    Also, dynamics of drums, dynamics of bass, dynamics of Vox, ... and dynamics of guitar, orchestra, etc.

    Also: Dynamics of the final cut (as per the Metallica fiasco).

    I'm interested in artistic perspectives. For example:

    ELO's Secret Messages was a bit too dynamic ... the build up could not be heard loudly enough to my ears.
    Alan Parson's Lucifer suffered a similar lack of punch during the preliminary build-up (i.e., the morse code musical transition)
    Most songs I've listened to by us, on Song's forum, suffer from 'boring dynamics'.

    Etc.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    rumleymusic
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/19 19:23:15 (permalink)
    If you check out Bob Katz web site, Digital Domain (digido.com) . You can find a list of "Hall of Fame" Albums which he thinks are the best mastered in category of loudness level. It is an interesting list if you can find the CD's.

    In my opinion there is no such thing as "too dynamic" unless there in un-evenness. ie. you don't want the vocals to disappear suddenly behind the mix. My personal take on it is that (in popular music anyway) the transients of the most percussive instruments are the most important to keep, esp. those with higher pitch. I think it is more vital that a snare sound more dynamic than the Bass drum, and the guitar slightly more than the bass. You ear notices the compression of higher pitches more than lower and perceives it as a problem.

    As far as non percussive, take a synth pad....you expect rather flat dynamics with that.

    It would be nice to have dynamic vocals, but then again, the voice is one of those things that tend to do well without varying levels of loudness, because we notice them more, and they need consistency.
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    Philip
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/20 04:56:55 (permalink)
    Thankyou Daniel for your excellent insight: You've really helped to clear some clouds regarding my take on dynamics: Thus, "too dynamic" may be a misnomer ... depending on my flexible definition of dynamic.
    In my opinion there is no such thing as "too dynamic" unless there in un-evenness. ie. you don't want the vocals to disappear suddenly behind the mix.

    --A very common problem I see in my own and numerous other mixes ... allowing vocals and vocal transients to disappear, get drowned and/or muddied in the mix. To me that is a very sad dilemma: Tentative Solution: Increased Vocal enunciation (in the dry), simplification of lyrics, and/or re-tuning of EQ and volume envelopes.
    My personal take on it is that (in popular music anyway) the transients of the most percussive instruments are the most important to keep, esp. those with higher pitch. I think it is more vital that a snare sound more dynamic than the Bass drum, and the guitar slightly more than the bass. Your ear notices the compression of higher pitches more than lower and perceives it as a problem.

    --Daniel, that is profoundly spoken. Not to exaggerate Bass dynamics … but their transients always remain a challenge: DnB is rarely a simple genre-feat what I've read.

    --But, the snare (for me) is so oft butchered and forgotten. The snare takes on more life, and challenge, methinks, than any other instrument. Fortunately, it is extremely intuitive for artists to adjust snare velocity, snare volume, snare types of sounds, etc., to a candidate mix. But there remains a lot of complex beauty in snare dynamics … in ups and downs, buzzing-in/out, etc. Percussionists are well aware of this, especially virtuosos.

    The synth pad and organ (and the vox oftentimes) seem relatively flat … requiring slow fades to prevent ‘sudden-disappearance-syndromes’. Of course there are liberties to take with these, but they seem to follow your rule.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    kwgm
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/21 17:51:53 (permalink)
    Yes, Bob's book Mastering Audio has many insights into this issue -- do yourself a favor and pick up a copy -- let it be your beside reading for a while.

    Another excellent source of material -- the Sound on Sound website. You can't view the current few months of articles for free, but everything else, over 10 years of articles are up there for all to see. You have to use the search engine properly, but there's excellent articles there. Hint, look for the multi-part discourses on mixing and mastering skills -- that's where you'll find info in depth.


    --kwgm
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    Philip
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    RE: Dynamics vs. Compression 2008/09/21 19:12:05 (permalink)
    Today I ordered Bob's book Mastering Audio (Barnes & Noble Teacher's discount) and perused the Bob Katz web site, Digital Domain (digido.com) ... and bookmarked it. I also bookmarked SOS and have been perusing both sites.

    Thanks again, Daniel and Kurt, for your invaluable leads.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

    Raised-Again 3http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12307501
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