Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help

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SMonahan
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2008/09/20 15:41:48 (permalink)

Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help

Hello,

I'm having a problem with a new condenser microphone I just bought, I'm hoping maybe someone can help me out, because I pretty much know nothing about condenser microphones. The purpose of this microphone is to record acoustic guitar.

It's a Marshall MXL V57M. I just got it yesterday. It requires a 48v phantom power source, so I'm also using an Audio Technica AT8801. Everything is brand new; the mic, the phantom power source, and the cables:

Marshall MXL V57M
->
Whirlwind EMC20 (don't know what pin is hot; don't even know what that means, or if it matters)
->
Audio Technica AT8801
->
Shure C15HZ (pin 2 hot; don't know what that means, or if it matters)
->
output speaker

When I first hooked it all up, the microphone was producing a sound, albeit a very low signal. I then realized that while I had it hooked up through the AT8801, the AT8801's power source was not plugged into it. I plugged it in. The microphone was still producing a signal, but it was still very small; plugging the the AT8801's power source in did not change the signal strength. After a few minutes, the microphone stopped producing a signal at all. I have not been able to get it to work again.

I have a very old Electro Void PL88 omni-directional microphone which does not require a power source. I tried plugging it in to the cables, and it does produce a signal, so it is apparently not the cables. When I plug the PL88 through the AT8801 however, it still produces a signal, but it is significatly smaller than it is without it. I have no idea what the effects would be of plugging a PL88 into a phantom power source would be, so I don't know if this is expected behaviour, or an indication of a problem. The AT8801 does not have any kind of indicator light to let me know if it's on, receiving power, etc.

I don't understand how the condenser microphone could have been producing a signal at all before I plugged the AT8801's power in, and I don't understand why it's producing no signal at all now.

Since the microphone and the power source need each other to work, I have no idea how to test them individually for problems, or if I just have something hooked up wrong, or what.

Does anyone have any ideas/need more info?

Thanks in advance,
Sean
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    Frank Haas
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 16:04:37 (permalink)
    ouch..
    something seems to be very wrong here..
    I guess the C15HZ is your problem..
    I couldn't figure out exactly how the AT8801 works,.. from the C15HZ you go directly to your speakers ? that doesn't make too much sense.. are those active speakers ?
    if you go into some line-input of your audiointerface then you might have burned that one..
    I'd stop any experiments immedately, but it's probably too late..
    It's a bit difficult to follow your signal flow.. I had to look up all the stuff only to find out that 2 items were cables..
    post edited by Frank Haas - 2008/09/20 16:06:19
    #2
    SMonahan
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 16:25:14 (permalink)
    Sorry, I should have made it clearer; the Whirlwind and the Shure are microphone cables.

    The output I'm plugging into is actually an audio patch bay which is going to an amp and to my computer's line in.

    When you say 'too late', what do you mean? Have I ruined the microphone? or the phantom power source?

    Thanks,
    Sean
    #3
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 16:48:44 (permalink)
    I can only guess.. I never used something like the AT8801 and probably would never use it.. it seems that the AT8801 protects the mic (short protection).. so I'd be a bit more concerned on what happens on the other side..
    using a XLR -> unbalanced TRS cable is at least "risky".. I am no friend of such experiments.. and I can't tell you if that works.. (I'd have to dig deeper into this topic, and I am sure here are enough people who have a better insight about this)
    If the phantom power is reaching your line in.. then it's something some devices don't like very much.. in fact there are probably only very few devices that can manage that anyway.. (and those usually provide phantom power anyway)
    so if you connect/disconnect that C15HZ while you have phantom power turned on.. then that can damage your line-ins..
    on the other side I don't know if the AT8801 has +48V on the "output" side.. or if it's just some kind of preamp.. but then it wouldn't have a mic-output but rather a line output..

    Please wait for a "pro" to chime in.. until then just don't play too much with those stuff (for above reasons)..
    if you still have that soundblaster interface.. you would be doing a lot better moving to a more daw-compatible-audiointerface with mic-preamps (and phantom power)
    post edited by Frank Haas - 2008/09/20 16:56:54
    #4
    Philip
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 17:02:17 (permalink)
    I am not a pro, but ...

    As per Frank ... (be careful ... I'd add, especially because of the questionable quality of your phantom power supply.)

    Possibly find 'another' condensor mic to test the phantom power or take the mic elsewhere to test it, etc.

    I'm sure you will rule out whether its the phantom power or the mic.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    #5
    SMonahan
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 17:51:15 (permalink)
    Yes, I do still have the sound blaster interface.

    Thanks for the responses, Frank and Philip
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    Rbh
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/20 19:46:16 (permalink)
    I would agree that you might be having a problem splitting the signal with in the patch bay to an amp as well as the audio interface. Try bypassing the amp and going straight to the interface and see if you can still get signal from your mic... if you hear nothing you may have created a problem with the condenser mic.

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    #7
    SMonahan
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/21 01:46:59 (permalink)
    I think I see what I was missing now. I need a preamp. I'm a n00b when it comes to acoustic recording apparently. I only have need of the one microphone, so I only really need a single channel preamp. I'm looking at this one (even though it's two channels): http://www.zzounds.com/item--THKMIMAB0.

    If I used this, would this be all I needed (once I verify the mic still works)?

    - Microphone (MXL V57M) --> Phantom power / preamp (M-Audio AudioBuddy) --> line-in on computer.

    I'm a bit technically challenged, so thanks in advance.

    Sean
    #8
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/21 03:55:29 (permalink)
    yes, that AudioBuddy should do.. (no need for the the AT8801 anymore)
    but you could get an audiointerface for ~100USD which has mic input(s) and phantom power.. and then it's just mic->pc, which is not as vulnerable to noise as your setup would be
    #9
    SMonahan
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/21 04:42:04 (permalink)
    You mean something like this?

    http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOMOBILEPRE

    Thanks, I'll look into that option too.
    #10
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Problem with new condenser microphone, seeking help 2008/09/21 05:41:00 (permalink)
    well, yes something like that..
    you can open a new topic in the gear section to get some help on budget audiointerfaces.. in terms of latency you are better off running a pci/pci-e card..
    I am in no way a fan of the edirol ua-25.. but when low latency is not necessary an option for you then you could buy one at ebay.. it's just more versatile as it has combined TRS/XLR connectors.. and a lot of features that are really useable.. also providing a good sound..
    you should get the ua-25 rel. cheap as there's an upgrade(UA-25EX, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA25EX/) released recently. Although I have to admit that an usd-device would be the last thing I'd buy..
    Firewire devices served me quite well the last years.. and if I wouldn't have the need to be mobile with my audiointerfaces then I'd switch to pci/pci-e.
    #11
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