uptoolate
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OT: Duende Dillema
I have two UAD1 cards and have been really happy with them. I seriously want to add a Duende into the mix to get those flavors too. I have a feeling I may actualy like them a little more than the UAD stuff. Just based on what I've heard and a few clips.
The only problem is that my machine (3 year old Sweetwater Creation Staion pc) only has one PCI-e slot. That is where one of my UAD1 cards lives. One card is PCI and one is PCI-e.
I've been told that I really need to stear clear of the firewire route with the Duende and just get the PCI-e and be done with it.
Is the Duende stuff worth me ditching one of my UAD1 cards? I could always trade it for a PCI version, since I have another slot in that format.
If anyone has both the UAD1 and Duende (classic or PCI-e), I would love to hear what you think about sound quality with each unit. Which one do you like better?
Any advice would be appreciated.
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xohol
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 4:28 PM
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i have never used either...
but one thing to note is that with these dual core machines commonplace now, there really isn't a need for powered plugins anymore.
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tazman
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 4:28 PM
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You may want to ask that question over at gearslutz.com. I have seen a few reviews over there.
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j boy
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 5:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: xohol
i have never used either...
but one thing to note is that with these dual core machines commonplace now, there really isn't a need for powered plugins anymore.
The cards are basically dongles... you can't run the plugins without 'em. 
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xohol
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 5:38 PM
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ORIGINAL: j boy
The cards are basically dongles... you can't run the plugins without 'em.
The cards are basically processors... you cant run the plugins without them because the processing is done on the card, instead of your CPU (minus graphics)
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uptoolate
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 6:15 PM
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ORIGINAL: xohol
i have never used either...
but one thing to note is that with these dual core machines commonplace now, there really isn't a need for powered plugins anymore.
Thanks for your insight. I have thought quite a bit about that. My computer is 3 years old, tweaked out and humming along. With that being said, I probably don't have enough horsepower in that machine to really mix how I want to mix. Also, so many people just think the Duende and UAD1 stuff is just way ahead of the pack in terms of soud quality. So, my thought is get some horsepower and awesome sounding plugs at the same time. That's a little of my thought process here. I do appreciate all coments on this. Thanks
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j boy
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 6:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: xohol
ORIGINAL: j boy
The cards are basically dongles... you can't run the plugins without 'em.
The cards are basically processors... you cant run the plugins without them because the processing is done on the card, instead of your CPU (minus graphics)
Well literally yes but as you yourself said the processing power the card offers is superfluous given the power of a modern quad-core computer. So in essence it merely serves to prevent you from *sharing* the plugins with someobody who doesn't have the card installed. A dongle figuratively not literally.
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Fog
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 8:28 PM
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I have mixed feeling about it , even if I could buy one..
they did an update and updated fx..
BUT they charged for the update.. some people might have wanted the updates without the additional fx
and what was the gap between them releasing the half size unit?
so maybe they have amazing sounds, but I don't like how they do other things.
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RTGraham
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 10:45 PM
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ORIGINAL: uptoolate
Is the Duende stuff worth me ditching one of my UAD1 cards? I could always trade it for a PCI version, since I have another slot in that format.
My opinion would be no. Changing to a classic PCI, maybe. But ditching, no. I've been using the original Duende on Firewire, and I now have it running *very* smoothly - this machine isn't that new anymore, either. It would be probably be more cost-effective and more future-thinking for you to put a separate dedicated FireWire controller card in your open PCI slot (see the SSL website for a tech paper with a list of known working controllers - the Belkin is an older model that plays *very* nicely with an old 32-bit PCI slot), and go with the FireWire Duende. Make sure you read all of the tech papers and forum tips, and it should be possible to get the FireWire version running without a hitch. As far as type of plugins, you'll probably find that the Duende is not a replacement for anything you're using on the UAD cards - they're different animals, and different personalities. I tend to go to the UAD first for Neve channels and 1176's on prominent tracks like vocals and bass, and then go to the Duende for more transient stuff like drums and percussion; that's just my own preference, though. EDIT One more thought - while the SSL website says that the mono versions of the Duende plugins work in SONAR 7 but not in SONAR 6, this is not entirely accurate. The mono versions also work in SONAR 6 if you manually set the track or bus's interleave to mono.
post edited by RTGraham - May 22, 08 11:07 PM
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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uptoolate
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 22, 08 11:39 PM
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ORIGINAL: RTGraham
ORIGINAL: uptoolate
Is the Duende stuff worth me ditching one of my UAD1 cards? I could always trade it for a PCI version, since I have another slot in that format.
My opinion would be no. Changing to a classic PCI, maybe. But ditching, no.
I've been using the original Duende on Firewire, and I now have it running *very* smoothly - this machine isn't that new anymore, either. It would be probably be more cost-effective and more future-thinking for you to put a separate dedicated FireWire controller card in your open PCI slot (see the SSL website for a tech paper with a list of known working controllers - the Belkin is an older model that plays *very* nicely with an old 32-bit PCI slot), and go with the FireWire Duende. Make sure you read all of the tech papers and forum tips, and it should be possible to get the FireWire version running without a hitch.
As far as type of plugins, you'll probably find that the Duende is not a replacement for anything you're using on the UAD cards - they're different animals, and different personalities. I tend to go to the UAD first for Neve channels and 1176's on prominent tracks like vocals and bass, and then go to the Duende for more transient stuff like drums and percussion; that's just my own preference, though.
EDIT
One more thought - while the SSL website says that the mono versions of the Duende plugins work in SONAR 7 but not in SONAR 6, this is not entirely accurate. The mono versions also work in SONAR 6 if you manually set the track or bus's interleave to mono.
Thanks a whole lot for that info. Great idea. Thanks.
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RTGraham
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
May 23, 08 1:59 AM
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ORIGINAL: uptoolate
Thanks a whole lot for that info. Great idea. Thanks.
Glad I said something useful. I think sometimes I just ramble here. 
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B San
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 17, 08 8:50 PM
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Is the PCIe version of the Duende generally more stable than it's firewire counterpart?
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz, 8GB RAM Corsair xms2 (4 x 2B), Asus P5Q Delux, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, RME AIO, UA 2192, Lynx Aurora 8, UAD-2 Quad (x2), UAD-1 PCI, Duende PCIe, Powercore FW, Dual Boot system ft. XP Pro SP2 & Win 7 Pro 64bit, Studio One Pro v.2, Sonar 8.5.3, Samplitude ProX, Sonar X1d Expanded
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Duojet
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 17, 08 8:59 PM
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sell the PCIe card on ebay, and buy a PCI card. easy. many for sale there, you should be able to break even or maybe make some money considering yours is a pcie may sell for more.
Intel Core2Duo e8400 Abit IP35-E 4GB Ram Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit EMU 1820m DFHS2, BFD2, Battery3, Amplitube2, GuitarRig3, Kontakt4, Ampeg SVX, Line6 PodXT
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jcschild
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 18, 08 10:39 AM
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HI,
the Duende firewire works very well now after several firmware updates. however it needs its own FIrewire card.
you also need to think about the future. the UAD2 is PCIe ONLY. and much more powerful..
personally you would better off upgrading to a new system with more PCIe at this point than buying/selling older tech.
as mentioned the duende is awesome but entirely different that UAD...
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 25, 08 10:26 PM
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Hi Friends !
I just went back from the shop with one duende and a liquid mix for a death match this week end .....
Duende very quick install, lauchin a project and put 8 stereo channel, evry thing straight
Bouncing to track : nighmare begins
re open trying to freez , same **** !!
After dat Blue screen , no more duende running !!! f...k it i m trying right now the liquid , same behaviour with bouncing and freezin, so is there something to do in Sonar 6 or is the dsp developper dat sucks !
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John T
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 26, 08 5:21 AM
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ORIGINAL: uptoolate
I've been told that I really need to stear clear of the firewire route with the Duende and just get the PCI-e and be done with it.
Can't see why. Works just fine. Do you have problems on your system with other Firewire devices?
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 26, 08 7:56 AM
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No , it's plugged in fact with my fireface 400, but i have no problem when playing back for example 16 stereo for the liquid with 16 native effects....
it just occurs during bouncin or freezing , even doin ut in real time !!
don't think it will need more bandwitch durin the operation cause the result of the bounce or freeze is crystal clear , but as soon as i play the otha tracks , crazy grrrrr.....
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RTGraham
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 26, 08 12:40 AM
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Both of those devices (Duende and Liquid Mix) are *very* picky about what firewire controller they're connected to, and whether anything else is connected to it. You can find plenty of information in various forum posts about Liquid Mix; my personal experience with Duende is that for it to work at all, it needed to be connected to *its own* Firewire adapter (I put in one of the Belkin models that's listed on the SSL website), with the latest Duende drivers installed, and you also need to flash the Duende firmware to make sure it's up-to-date. When I had it on any of the other Firewire adapters in the system, even if nothing else was on them, regardless of whether they were TI or VIA chipsets, it wouldn't work. The firmware flasher would see it, but the resource meter and plugins would not. Even though it *seems* like there shouldn't be a bandwidth issue because you're getting realtime playback, sometimes doing a bounce accesses devices in a different way - during realtime playback, the priority is "get from point A to point B without stopping, even if we have to drop some samples on the way," but during a bounce the priority is "get the audio right, no matter what."
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 27, 08 1:23 AM
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Thks for the answer RTGraham!
Bought the belkin , put the duende on it , just like the begining , i mean everything is flawless, even sometime after some bou,nnces or freezes and then crash, no reason , one time just crash after just stoppin the playabak or i get sometime the ghost stuff with sound bypassed!!
I'm not a newbee, and before i buy a system, that's dpc latency checker and all device tried one buy one , system rock solid until now !!
in fact i'm able at 512 buffer with the fireface on the back of the duende to work smooth until it crashes with no reason cpu les than 30 disk close to null!
so can anybody give the settings in sonar (audio and over if needed) pretty sure
What's crazy is that it happens with the two hardwares so pretty sure that s6 is the issue (i mean the way my setting is runnin) cause a even tried with no otha devices on the computer (no fireface no hardrive)
i got an alphatrack, a remote sl, and mpd 24, tomorow will try to find if ther's not an unsynchronisation beteween the midi and the dc maybe....
any help needed cause i just find out the best eq a never heard ! (vs waves classics, vs sonnox et urs!) on the duende, the sound is not as warm but will add an analog summing from dangerous music asap to kill this **** but right now i'm dead !!!
i sdidn't have the opportunity to really go in the liquid as ther's a lot of possibilités but pretty good stuff tried on the drm with the dbx emulations really clause to tha real thing and sound warm ....
meydey meydey ;) uad ?expander?Sonar 8?
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RTGraham
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 27, 08 10:00 PM
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Just out of curiousity - what motherboard is in your computer? How much RAM?
Have you tried adjusting the ExtraPluginBufs setting in the AUD.INI? You may need to up it to 128, or even 256 (or, if those don't work, maybe even 512). I wonder if you're running out of plugin memory when you try to bounce or freeze.
Also, let's get more specific with the crash: when you say that the machine crashes, what specifically do you mean? Playback stops? SONAR freezes? Windows freezes? Blue Screen Of Death? If it's a blue screen, what message does it display? So far we've been giving you fairly generic suggestions, because you've only given us a generic description of the problem.
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 28, 08 9:33 PM
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In fact this is like an audiodrop or like if the latency was not enough high , so sometimes it doesn't play , most of the time it plays with midi unsync and with glitches and pops while the bounce is clean, wil try the audini stuff here's the thread i started for this issue: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1502068&mpage=1&key=�
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 8:31 AM
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When you say real time bounce, do you mean usin the command "bounce to track " or you just record what you want on a track ?
And what about freezing ?
The question is are you able to freeze or bounce under sonar with audio and midi track without any glitches ?
If yes what setting do you have on the audio options ...?
thks
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 9:30 AM
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ok i understand but i for exemple i freeze a audio track even with no duende on it, the fact that i'm freezing make the issue on vst i traeted or not
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 3:42 PM
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can you try with Waves plugins in i supect them for being maybe the cause of the issue
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 4:30 PM
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MAN i'm lookin at the waves issue and it seems very close to this !!!!
I'm workin on right now
For the bounce and freeze been doin it for a long time with everykind of plugins but i remeber that since i have the waves ssl plugins , it crashed a session one or two time after a bounces so i think it can really by the guilty one !!
stay tuned
thks a lot for your support
i really appreciate your help
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 4:52 PM
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Ok So here's the interesting situation !!! :::::
Sampletank with 16 midi and audio and Couple of audio track
Effect on audio track (wves doubler's , S1 imager, waves SSL channel)
Effect on sampletank audio (waves ssl channel , waves api 2500 , urs 1980) all spread between differentes section of the ryhtm wicth was made in sampletank let's say each part of the drum has 2 of those effects in insert and i added in three of them the duende Channel !
TEST 1 :
Freezin an audio track : motor crash : solution disablin and enabling sampletank on the synh rack : playback flawlees after !
Same for bouncin
TEST 2 :
Squezzing all the waves plugin on Sampletank audio :
Thing is straight , playback flawless
TEST 3 :
Creating for each sampletank channel an stereo bus allocated with all the waves on
Bounce and freeze straight sweet :
Let's say that both realtime and speed bounces and freeze worked , the issue is more the 64 bits engine, so for a final bounce, check it and do the disable or enable thing to the synth !
Sor here 's my conclusion : waves are the guilty (as usualy , waveshells ....)
Of course i'm usin the shell to vst for the plug , i'm gonna try the test with the DX version and with the liquid mix
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 6:50 PM
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Just anotha thing
I'm workinon on a 4 bars loop
Cpu at 20 % and just before the end of the loop, pic at 70 then 20 for ever even before the end of the same loop durin several time...
tried diferent tweaks on the settings buffer ... but nothin
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 29, 08 11:18 PM
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it seems that's not a waves issues since i stil have some even with no waves at all
the only work around is to desacivate then active all the vsti playin midi !
F ...
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 30, 08 3:38 AM
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I have two UAD1 cards and have been really happy with them. I seriously want to add a Duende into the mix to get those flavors too. I have a feeling I may actualy like them a little more than the UAD stuff. Just based on what I've heard and a few clips.
The only problem is that my machine (3 year old Sweetwater Creation Staion pc) only has one PCI-e slot. That is where one of my UAD1 cards lives. One card is PCI and one is PCI-e.
I've been told that I really need to stear clear of the firewire route with the Duende and just get the PCI-e and be done with it.
Is the Duende stuff worth me ditching one of my UAD1 cards? I could always trade it for a PCI version, since I have another slot in that format.
If anyone has both the UAD1 and Duende (classic or PCI-e), I would love to hear what you think about sound quality with each unit. Which one do you like better?
Any advice would be appreciated. If you want the SSL flavor... but don't want to deal with a PCI/e card or FW expansion, checkout the Waves SSL bundle. The Waves SSL bundle works/sounds great. You have to deal with the iLok and WUP... but that's the trade-off.
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Zo
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RE: OT: Duende Dillema
September 30, 08 4:12 AM
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In fact i own the whole Classic and i can tell you thet the depth and the sound of duende is awesome and way above
I just checked the buss compressor from the liquid mix and the definition in the lows compared to the ssl waves is way better , makin the whole sound breath , on the waves the sound loose a lot !!!
I was liking the waves until i chkeked those two units!
in fact in the bindle the api compressor is way better tha the ssl and neve eq is great for vocal where the api eq good for live instruments but what i can say is that on with one channel of duende i can do the wall range of work !! without loosin dethp calrity and phase issues !
add an analog summer behind and you're done !!!;)
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