dave_music
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To have your own version of the original ?
Hello,
I am trying to record some songs that have been recorded by original artists. Should I have my own version including instruments and vocal? or should I make them sound as close as possible to their original version except vocal since everybody's voice is different?
Does audience like to listen to a completely new version? For me, yes. If I make my own version, I need to simplify the songs: fewer instruments, for example.
What is your take? Thanks.
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cmusicmaker
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 3:18 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
Hello,
I am trying to record some songs that have been recorded by original artists. Should I have my own version including instruments and vocal? or should I make them sound as close as possible to their original version except vocal since everybody's voice is different?
Does audience like to listen to a completely new version? For me, yes. If I make my own version, I need to simplify the songs: fewer instruments, for example.
What is your take? Thanks.
I would imagine the views on that are as wide and deep as anything you can imagine...but each one of your suggestions seems valid. I would probably produce a completely new version keeping certain aspects of the original song or maybe just the vocals.
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NY Keys
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 3:26 PM
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IMHO, (whatever it's worth) is that I have always been mystified by artists - even commercially successful superstars - who cover tunes and copy the original arrangement. It just makes no sense to me. If a singer wants to put their own vocals on the orignal tracks they should go to a Karaoke bar. It shows off vocal talent but really adds very little creativity. I simply don't get why , for example, Celine Dion redid Eric Carmen's ALL BY MYSELF when she pretty much just sang his version. Now she has some powerful high notes which Carmen does not have so one might argue adds something different but in reality she's just doing a Karaoke version of what he did. Now... Jewel also remade the same tune but put her own spin on it. Sometimes it's actually appalling - especially when the new vocal really sucks. I think it's the definitive example of chutzpah for Uncle Kracker to attempt to put his own vocals into a cloned arrangement (actually the music sucks too) of Dobie's Gray's classic Drift Away. Why Dobie participated in the recording is beyond me other than maybe for the dinero. Now - again, look at Ike and Tina Turner's cover of that same tune and you'll hear some creativity. In the band that I play with we do about 80% covers and 20% originals. On many of the covers we do we do clone the original because of the venues we are in -- sometimes that's what people want to hear. But if we lay down any recordings other than originals we always completely re-do the arrangment. Not sure if this link will work but here goes anway. it's my band's version of the Beatles' COME TOGETHER http://users.bestweb.net/~barker/Jigsaww/studio_come_together.mp3 if that doesnt' work go to http://www.jigsaww.com and click on MP3 SAMPLES on the left menu Anyway - that's my opinion about the subject. If you're going to take the time to lay down tracks of an existing popular song - be creative - rip it up... make it your own.
< Message edited by NY Keys -- 8/9/2004 3:55:16 PM >
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epytryga
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 3:31 PM
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My take on covers is:
Definitely...make it your own...in your style...but...with the occasion "nod" to the original..perhaps a signature riff, or harmony....
added to your own version of the song...my belief is if people want to hear the original version..they'll want that not a cover, unless the cover does something different....and yet..captures or accentuates the "vibe" of the original...
Kind Regards: Eric Music samples at: https://soundcloud.com/the_oxford_circus Gear: Windows 10, 16Gb RAM, Intel i7-6700 CPU @ 3.4Ghz, Propellerhead Balance ASIO AMD II X6 1075T PROCESSOR 3.0GHZ/8GB RAM/PROPELLERHEAD BALANCE ASIO DRIVERS.
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cmusicmaker
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 3:39 PM
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ORIGINAL: NY Keys
IMHO, (whatever it's worth) is that I have always been mystified by artists - even commercially successful superstars - who cover tunes and copy the original arrangement. It just makes no sense to me.
Absolutely right. It's a missed opportunity to do something different really... why not try something creative and fresh instead?
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ohhey
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 3:42 PM
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ORIGINAL: epytryga
My take on covers is:
Definitely...make it your own...in your style...but...with the occasion "nod" to the original..perhaps a signature riff, or harmony....
added to your own version of the song...my belief is if people want to hear the original version..they'll want that not a cover, unless the cover does something different....and yet..captures or accentuates the "vibe" of the original...
I agree, in some cases a "remake" is even better then the original, even a simple unplugged version with just the singer and an acoustic guitar can put the original to shame. Many older songs were not well done and have lots of pontintal. If you find one with good "bones" think of ways it could be done better. Get rid of any rules you may have placed on yourself, if you want to do a rap version of a country classic, go for it. Most songwriters LOVE that kind of thing. Not only do they get more money if it's a hit but it's just cool to see how many ways the words can be used. It would be great for me if someone else did one of my songs. I had a girl "steal" one of my guitar riffs once and use it in her own song and I get a big smile everytime I hear her song.
< Message edited by ohhey -- 8/9/2004 3:44:37 PM >
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joetabby
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 5:23 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
I am trying to record some songs that have been recorded by original artists. Should I have my own version including instruments and vocal? or should I make them sound as close as possible to their original version except vocal since everybody's voice is different?
Does audience like to listen to a completely new version? For me, yes. If I make my own version, I need to simplify the songs: fewer instruments, for example.
What is your take? Thanks.
Unless you're: 1) demonstrating a technical ability ("...is it Steve Vai or is Memorex?"  ) or 2) auditioning for a "Cover Band", then IMO it's pretty much all downside if you go the play-it-like-the-record route. Sadly, the closer you get, the more people will focus on the sections that they recognize as different or not-quite-the-same as the original. On the other hand, interpreting songs is a time-honored musical form that's been going on for centuries. The Classical genre has any number of pieces that are based on intrepreting or developing earlier works. "Variations on a Theme by Paganini" was mined by Rachmaninov, Brahms, Franz Liszt. . . and I just had a brain fart, but I believe one other notable. Oh well. And in Jazz (!), the intrepreting and putting one's personal stamp on a piece has always been a source of delight for audiences and a showcase for groundbreaking creativity. So my opinion is go for it. -- Joe "Okay guys...let's play Louie, Louie again . . . no not like that! Like the Kingsman!" Tabby
< Message edited by joetabby -- 8/9/2004 6:19:09 PM >
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Harvey Cedars
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 5:27 PM
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Write your own songs, and you won't have to worry about what to do with cover tunes. It's easy. Your song=true soul
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moniker
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:26 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
Hello,
I am trying to record some songs that have been recorded by original artists. Should I have my own version including instruments and vocal? or should I make them sound as close as possible to their original version except vocal since everybody's voice is different?
Does audience like to listen to a completely new version? For me, yes. If I make my own version, I need to simplify the songs: fewer instruments, for example.
What is your take? Thanks.
Now, what would John Zorn do?
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dave_music
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:31 PM
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Thanks all. I like to understand a basic term you guys mentioned here. what is covers or cover tunes? Are they signatures of originals, or something that you create differently from originals? Thanks, ORIGINAL: Harvey Cedars
Write your own songs, and you won't have to worry about what to do with cover tunes. It's easy. Your song=true soul
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moniker
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:42 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
Thanks all.
I like to understand a basic term you guys mentioned here. what is covers or cover tunes? Are they signatures of originals, or something that you create differently from originals?
Thanks,
ORIGINAL: Harvey Cedars
Write your own songs, and you won't have to worry about what to do with cover tunes. It's easy. Your song=true soul
When I play somebody elses tune I play it "my" way. What other way is there? For clients of the studio I roll over and play dead. Dave, I haven't forgotten we are due a session (and I mean best bitter) this week!
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epytryga
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:45 PM
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"Covers"...performing a song written and recorded previously by some one other than yourself....
i.e. if I did the Stone's "Satisfaction"...I would be "covering" it...
Kind Regards: Eric Music samples at: https://soundcloud.com/the_oxford_circus Gear: Windows 10, 16Gb RAM, Intel i7-6700 CPU @ 3.4Ghz, Propellerhead Balance ASIO AMD II X6 1075T PROCESSOR 3.0GHZ/8GB RAM/PROPELLERHEAD BALANCE ASIO DRIVERS.
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daveny5
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:47 PM
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Unless you're playing in a cover band, where imitation is considered better than originality, I find it to be an incredible waste of time to try to duplicate the original. Either try to make it different or better in some way. I like to take vocal songs and make them instrumentals or rock songs and make them jazzy or big band or jazz songs and make them rock or new agey. Those efforts seem to bear more repeat listenings than just a copy that's never going to be as good as the original.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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jcpzero
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 6:56 PM
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Interesting question, somewhat depends on the audience. If you are playing a wedding, I suspect the audience would expect a cover song to be close to the original.
But if I were recording a CD, I would change the arrangement of the original and make it my own. As a consumer, when I buy a CD with cover songs I exect something different from the original (If I want the original I would just buy that CD).
JCPZero
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dave_music
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 7:19 PM
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Very good points. I need to make my own music instead of duplicating others :-)
I like to learn arrangement. Any good articles about music arrangement?
Thanks.
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dave_music
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 7:26 PM
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Singing is a big talent. American Idol is about singing. I do not know if their songs were arranged differently from originals. :-) ORIGINAL: NY Keys
IMHO, (whatever it's worth) is that I have always been mystified by artists - even commercially successful superstars - who cover tunes and copy the original arrangement. It just makes no sense to me.
If a singer wants to put their own vocals on the orignal tracks they should go to a Karaoke bar. It shows off vocal talent but really adds very little creativity.
I simply don't get why , for example, Celine Dion redid Eric Carmen's ALL BY MYSELF when she pretty much just sang his version. Now she has some powerful high notes which Carmen does not have so one might argue adds something different but in reality she's just doing a Karaoke version of what he did. Now... Jewel also remade the same tune but put her own spin on it.
Sometimes it's actually appalling - especially when the new vocal really sucks. I think it's the definitive example of chutzpah for Uncle Kracker to attempt to put his own vocals into a cloned arrangement (actually the music sucks too) of Dobie's Gray's classic Drift Away. Why Dobie participated in the recording is beyond me other than maybe for the dinero. Now - again, look at Ike and Tina Turner's cover of that same tune and you'll hear some creativity.
In the band that I play with we do about 80% covers and 20% originals. On many of the covers we do we do clone the original because of the venues we are in -- sometimes that's what people want to hear. But if we lay down any recordings other than originals we always completely re-do the arrangment. Not sure if this link will work but here goes anway. it's my band's version of the Beatles' COME TOGETHER
http://users.bestweb.net/~barker/Jigsaww/studio_come_together.mp3
if that doesnt' work go to http://www.jigsaww.com and click on MP3 SAMPLES on the left menu
Anyway - that's my opinion about the subject. If you're going to take the time to lay down tracks of an existing popular song - be creative - rip it up... make it your own.
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moniker
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 7:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
Very good points. I need to make my own music instead of duplicating others :-)
I like to learn arrangement. Any good articles about music arrangement?
Thanks.
See you at the pub (tba) and we'll swap ideas. Off to bed now.
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NY Keys
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 9:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: dave_music
Singing is a big talent. American Idol is about singing. I do not know if their songs were arranged differently from originals. :-)
Dave. That's 100% correct. AI is a very expensive, televised Karaoke party. And like local Karaoke, the audience loves the bad performers as much as the good ones. Did you know that William Hung's album is in the top 100 on some charts.... If you are preparing a CD to showcase your vocal ability then you should pick songs that are in your sweet spot and record those. Your original post indicated that you are looking to lay down some tracks and whether or not you should arrange them as the original tunes or do your own arrangments. If you are looking to showcase your vocals and just copy the originals you don't need to lay down any musical tracks at all. There are tons of backing tracks available on CD that do an excellent job of cloning the original. You can use these and just dub in your vocal. If you are, however, going to spend the time to lay down the tracks then (and this is just my opinion) it seems to me that you might as well take the risk and put your own spin on the tune. Also - to Harvey - you are 100% dead on about doing your own music. It absoultely is the most soulful thing to do. I personally do enjoy experimenting with off-the-wall arrangments of hit tunes and when we play live, the audiences love it. We do the old Boxtops tune The Letter (also covered by Joe Cocker) over the chords to Van Morrison's Moondance and several other things like that. At the end of the day, though when it comes to recording there is nothing quite like creating something from scratch.
< Message edited by NY Keys -- 8/9/2004 9:48:56 PM >
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ghijkmnop
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 09, 04 10:15 PM
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I agree, in some cases a "remake" is even better then the original, even a simple unplugged version with just the singer and an acoustic guitar can put the original to shame. And in other cases, you get that crappy dance remix of "Total Eclipse of the Heart."
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NY Keys
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 10, 04 8:57 AM
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And in other cases, you get that crappy dance remix of "Total Eclipse of the Heart."
You are soooooooo right... To take it one step further - there is a crappy dance remix of almost every great tune -Seriously - some of this stuff is just downright disrepectful. To take an existing tune, start over from scratch and put it to a different groove, or tempo, or meter, etc shows that you are really into the song and want to add your own creative juices to express it differently. But, to take an exisitng recording, adjust the beat so it's 100BPM 4/4 and put a power kick drum under it is not being creative. It's just simply trying to give the horny dancers on the floor 3 more minutes of stomping time. It has no creativity - it's technology for it's own sake, "I will turn this into a dance tune simply because I CAN"! It really makes me ill sometimes.... Sheesh - I think I need a chill pill....
Proudly overwhelmed, befuddled, amazed by and in awe of Music Technology since 1993!
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ghijkmnop
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RE: To have your own version of the original ?
August 10, 04 9:02 AM
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To take an existing tune, start over from scratch and put it to a different groove, or tempo, or meter, etc shows that you are really into the song and want to add your own creative juices to express it differently. There is a rock band up here (The Boneheads) that does a polka version of "Purple Haze." It's tight, funny, and VERY original, accordian and all. <g>
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