Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S

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mkh
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2008/11/01 17:14:27 (permalink)

Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S

As a registered Cakewalk user it appears Sonar Home Studio 7 XL can be had for $129, or Sonar 8 Studio for $199. With the relatively small difference in price, which option would be best? Subjective yes, so...

I have been using GT3 with Smart Loops, and while the ease of use is nice, the lack of flexibility is not. Enter the demo version of FL8 with the Smart Loops Reference Kit to create my own loops. It works, which is to say, I can in fact create my own loops, but you can imagine the work flow, and creative process disruptions.

Possible solution; EZ Drummer (for the money, it seems the way to go over say Addictive Drums at almost twice the cost, or JamStix at only slightly less). Now many of you have no doubt already discovered my next problem, GT3 does not support midi.

Sonar Home Studio 7 XL, and Sonar 8 Studio both support midi, and appear to come with Studio Instruments or Session Drummer 2 respectively. How do these compare to EZ Drummer?

The goal is to step into the world of midi, initially for drums, but eventually to acquiring a midi controller for use with either included soft synths, or any of a number of vst soft synths. The prospect of being able to compose via a staff view is appealing as well, curious, will the staff view allow for drum notation as well? I honestly don't know much at all about midi, so I really don't know which features I would find useful. I just know I bought GT3 when it appears I should have bought something with midi support. I bought several Smart Loop bundles, as well as the Reference Kit, when it appears I should have gone in another direction. I bought the TonePort GX (11ms, and no preamp ) when it appears I should have looked at PCI options, and a box with a preamp, like M-Audio. You really just don't know what your needs are going to be until you start using the various options and find what works and doesn't (to be fair, it all works, just not as I would like).

So here are the options so far...

MC4 (though I imagine there is a reason it is $40 and Sonar is well, not) + EZ Drummer.

SHS7XL with Studio Instruments (+ EZ Drummer, if Studio Instruments doesn't work out.)

S8S with Session Drummer 2 (+ EZ Drummer, if Session Drummer 2 doesn't work out.)

Thanks all.


I7 2600K; 8GB Ram; Windows 7 (64); M-Audio AV30's; Sonar X1c; Pod Studio UX2; Pod Farm 2; and EZD.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S 2008/11/01 18:22:29 (permalink)

    Hi there MKH, and welcome to the forum.

    Up until a few months ago, I was in almost exactlty the same situation you now find yourself in - using audio drum loops in GT3 and realising I wanted to move on to MIDI.

    My solution was to use the upgrade route to SONAR Home Studio 6 with the XL pack.

    HS6 is a fantastic program, just what I was looking for but I found Session Drummer 2 a little 'fiddly' to work with. So I got EZ Drummer with the Drum Kit From Hell pack and have been over the moon with it - it has some great sounds and is so easy to use as well; I was a complete MIDI noob but now I can confidently put together any drum track I want.

    I've since got HS7XL and to be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with it - seemingly in an effort to make Home Studio more attractive to new users, Cakewalk have removed some of HS6's more useful features. That's not to say it isn't a good program, it is, just different to HS6 I suppose you'd say.

    Anyway, performance wise, my Line 6 gear (I also have a TonePort; the UX2) and Home Studio, coupled with EZ Drummer behave together impeccably - I've not had a problem at all. I've also recently added a MIDI keyboard controller to really get into the softsynth stuff and that's working like a dream as well.

    I know much less about the other programs you mention, but there are a few guys who use Music Creator and SONAR who pass through so you may get some objective input from them; failing that, you could also post your question in the respective forums for those products.

    My only concern, especially if your using your TonePort to record through, and especially using SONAR, is having only 1gig of RAM on your PC; however, if you're running GT3 without issues, you should be good to go with that.

    Hope that helps

    Steve


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    RobertB
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    RE: Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S 2008/11/02 13:20:03 (permalink)
    MKH,
    MC4 is a scaled down version of Sonar6 and SHS6. It is limited to 32 audio tracks, 24 total effects, and a max of 8 synths.
    It will allow only two audio inputs. That's two mono inputs or one stereo pair.
    32 audio tracks may be sufficient, but if you use multiple outputs with soft synths, such as each drum in its own track, you can fill it up pretty quick.
    It is a capable program, but the ceiling is relatively low.
    SHS7 has met with mixed reviews. As Steve mentioned, they have tried to make it easier for new users. A side effect of that appears to be that more elaborate projects can be a royal pain to deal with. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I don't like having basic information tucked away in little drop-down windows. The program itself appears to be solid. At this point, I'm not likely to go for it.
    Personally, I would encourage you to search local stores and see if you can find a copy of SHS6XL still lurking on a shelf.
    The Studio Instruments drums ar ok, but not terribly sophisticated.
    Session Drummer 2 is more elaborate, and supports multiple outputs. It has better velocity layering, which allows for variations in the hit and tone of a drum.
    I haven't messed with EZ Drummer, but it looks very versatile.
    Jamstix seems more geared for people that want to let the program figure out the drums for you. Its big thing is the intelligent drummer.
    That's not a bad thing, but it doesn't look like what you are after.
    I'd start looking at controllers. Once you get a taste of MIDI, that "eventually" will probably change to "how soon".

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #3
    mkh
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    RE: Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S 2008/11/03 01:24:29 (permalink)
    Steve, Robert, thanks for the feedback. I am still undecided. Currently searching the internet for as much information as I can find on each one.

    Steve - from a YouTube video, it appears that EZ Drummer uses samples to create loops, though the loops are actually midi data instead of a recorded wav file, therefore able to be edited. Curious, can a drum track in a project be entered via piano roll, or even staff view, or are you limited to editing the supplied loops?

    Robert - do you recommend any particular controller?

    I7 2600K; 8GB Ram; Windows 7 (64); M-Audio AV30's; Sonar X1c; Pod Studio UX2; Pod Farm 2; and EZD.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Considering an upgrade from GT3 to either SHS7XL or S8S 2008/11/03 03:27:57 (permalink)

    You're correct about EZ Drummer - the MIDI data can be fully edited. I use the loops and fills to quickly create a drum track then use the Piano Roll to fine tune, adding cymbal crashes and rolls to make the track more 'interesting'.

    The standard loops can be converted to Groove Clips and dragged to copy to make longer sections if required.

    In answer to another question, I isolated a drum track I did for a song so someone could hear what the EZ Drummer sounds like - click on this link for a listen: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6839304

    As to a MIDI controller, I recently bought an Edirol PCR 800 which is just a superb bit of gear for the money - as directly recommended to me by Robert!

    Steve

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