You're comparing apples and oranges.
Hendrix used different amps (Fender Showmans and then Marshall stacks) than SRV (Fender Twin Reverbs and other small amps). Different distortion boxes as well (SRV used Tube Screamers and I forget what Jimi used). Jimi's guitar setup was way different than SRV's (pickups, strings, lefty vs righty). Are you sure you aren't confusing a difference in sound between the 2 artists?

No I am not. I am talking about the recordings only. I use SRV because its a very close version. Nearly note for note. If you believe that some things can't be well recorded then your argument would have legs. I don't.

Yup, been there, done that. I listen every time with a critical ear and can tell what saturated tape and clipping on analog gear sounds like. Done some time in a studio in the 70's in Philly on both sides of the glass. You want to know how critical an ear I have? I can hear the phase distortions on audio on broadcast concerts that just aren't there on the cd or dvd of that concert. I can tell when something is either an original or close copy.

If this is true then you have to hear how bad they are. If you don't then you are lying.

ORIGINAL: Jim Roseberry

I guess we are getting too used to perfection these days.

Perfection is such a fickle ideal...
Remove too much of the imperfection from a performance... and it sounds artificial.
Too many imperfections... and a performance just sounds BAD.

I think this brings us back to the song.
A great song trumps everything.
A great song combined with a great performance is a classic.

Amen, brother.
Perfection can be really boring, lifeless and dull (unless you like techno).

Perfection can be really boring, lifeless and dull (unless you like techno).

In recording its called High Fidelity. It has nothing to do with the performance. It has everything to do with taking the time to be sure that you are capturing it right.

ORIGINAL: Jim Roseberry

Perfection is such a fickle ideal...
Remove too much of the imperfection from a performance... and it sounds artificial.
Too many imperfections... and a performance just sounds BAD.

I think this brings us back to the song.
A great song trumps everything.
A great song combined with a great performance is a classic.

Roger that Mr Roseberry..........

Regards

Garry Kiosk

post edited by The Kiosk Project - 2008/11/13 11:06:02

They can't be fixed or modified because its on the master tapes. BTW many Motown classic recordings suffer from the same problem.

I understand...
You can hear distorted vocals all over Motown hits.
You can hear distortion in lots of modern records too (Jagged Little Pill, Vapor Trails, etc).
Don't like it... but it's there.

Hi-Fi back in the late 60s is not exactly what many would call Hi-Fi by today's standards.
And yes... it's ironic that with today's potential fidelity being greater than ever... we're compressing/limiting the snot out of records and distributing via MP3 (lossy compressed).

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say Eddie Cramer was a bad engineer.
I'd like to have half of his experiences/success. LOL

Back to Mitch Mitchell:
My favorite performance is his is on the tune Fire. Tons of energy and syncopation...

Wow... what can I stay. There were so many things that were just not OK for drummers to do till Mitch just "did it anyway". He was the only drummer that could really blend with the style Jimi was doing at the time. No offense to Buddy Miles he was great in his own way and played with all kinds of big names including Band of Gypsys with Jimi Hendrix. But Mitch... he was the one that just clicked with Jimi and made the sound of the Experiance. He will be missed.

that this thread has deteriorated from paying respect to a legendary musician to some dumbass drivel about recording levels

What a shame you don't understand what was being said.

Let's all agree that John is RIGHT, (even if he's not), or we'll never get back to what this thread should be about, the honoring of a great drummer that has just passed away.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the sound you are complaining about is the sound Kramer was going for? Not everybody likes a clean pristine sound.

If that were true it is very odd. I am not talking about what some like in analog its pure and simple distortion due to incompetence. If it was intended then he is a fool. Jimi didn't need him to put his mark on it. Further I bought the album and paid good money for it. I wanted to hear the musicians not the recordists. It should not be recorded in such a way that it obscures the music. That is just plain wrong.

BTW what we are discussing is every bit as on topic as any thing else on this thread.

ORIGINAL: jackn2mpu

ORIGINAL: John

Perfection can be really boring, lifeless and dull (unless you like techno).

In recording its called High Fidelity. It has nothing to do with the performance. It has everything to do with taking the time to be sure that you are capturing it right.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the sound you are complaining about is the sound Kramer was going for? Not everybody likes a clean pristine sound.

Rest in peace Mitch Mitchell

Personally, Im glad that it sounds the way it does. Thats the way I way I remember it sounding, different. John could be right though, maybe he did miss the boat on that recording, but all in all, I would'nt have it any other way. I Think it fits that time slot in history.

Leave it to good old John to get into a fight in a thread about the death of a great rock musician.

and it IS freakin Jimi Hendrix's band
and that was a great rock musician

I had a friend at my day-gig that went to the Hendrix retrospective concert here in Portland over the weekend. Mitch was billed to appear but he said there were two drum kits on stage and another drummer played the bulk of the concert. There was no lighting on the second kit, but he said that during one song he saw a figure seated at the drums and begin to play. The lights came up a bit on the second kit, and you could tell it was Mitch. He played for a part of one song and the lights went back down and he left the show. I'm guessing he was in poor health (for whatever reason).

As for recording technology. Not all projects were high budget, or could afford to spend 6 months in the studio. Not all great live players flourised in the studio either. Louie Louie was a Portland product (in all it's radiant glory). I'm not sure which studio did Louie Louie, but I suspect it may have been Northwest. (I did a few sessions there in the old days.) I used to jam with Jack Ely in my brother's basement (the song was recorded when the band was known as Jack Ely and the Courtmen). The band name changed to the Kingsmen sometime later. Norm Sundholm (Sunn amps),Lynn Easton, and Don Gallucci (Don and the Goodtimes) were members in that era. Jack refused to sing Louie Louie at most of the jams until he had consumed about two quart bottles of beer (pretty much everyone had by that time, as well). Good times on Corbet Street in the 60s.

Recording tech has come a long way since then, but it didn't seem to stop people from making very good, and pretty bad recordings back then. I had a friend who swore that the Paul Revere (another Portland act) version of Louie Louie that was allegedly done live, was actually done at Northwest, as well. The crowd noises were recorded later at a Portland Beavers AAA game. He claimed you can push the volume during the fade-out on that track and hear the crack of the bat just before the crowd cheers. Ahh, for the old days of ghetto recording.

I must agree with John that the Hendrix recordings are not so great. It is hard to crank the volume, even on a connesseur stereo/monitor system, and approach the type of dynamics and power that the Experience emanated live. It is pretty flat. Compare them with Led Zeppelin's first from the same era.

Than being said, I would not trade any of the multiple copies I have of any Hendrix album for albums of any other artist.

On a somber note, I am booked into the Benson Hotel in Portland Monday night and it will be hard to think of anything but Mitch while staying there. He could really keep up with Jimi and often save him when Jimi ventured too far from Jupiter's sulphur mines on the outskirts of his arrhythmic meditations.